Hi,
I've changed form to alter ego with Colossus while having two tough status cards on my identity and they both were kept. One of them should have been discarded because the ability of having up to two tough status cards only works for Colossus in hero form.
Thanks!
PS: I think I have a save file with this problem in case you need it.
Hi @quantumodo,
Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention regarding version v0.5.8.199. We were able to reproduce the situation you described. However, we couldn’t find any specific rule or FAQ that addresses this scenario.
If you have any references to rules or FAQs that might clarify this, please share them with us. Your input would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks again for your help!
A relevant rule is under Status Cards (RRv1.6 p38)
A character cannot have more than one status card of each type at a time.
My understanding is that, when a constant ability (like Colossus' hero form ability) or the Steady keyword ability breaks this rule, if the rule-breaking ability goes away then the game would have to respect the rule, above, and discard the excess status card. That said, Steady has been around for much longer than Colossus and I don't see an FAQ or rule confirming that the player is meant to remove excess status cards if a character loses the Steady keyword while already having two stunned or two confused status cards.
Humorously, there's also the lovely rule "Cannot" (RRv1.6 p11)
The word “cannot” is absolute and cannot be countermanded by other abilities or effects.
• If two abilities or rules conflict, the ability or rule with “cannot” takes precedence.
The clarification bullet point under "Cannot" was added with v1.6
So, arguably, Colossus' ability and the rules governing the Steady keyword actually don't allow a second copy of a status card to be placed.
The Golden rules together with the rule for CANNOT that Haze01 has mentioned are key here.
- The CANNOT rule does not allow any character to have two tough status cards
- But one the golden rules says:
"If the text of a card directly contradicts the text of either the Rules Reference or the Learn to Play book, the text of the card takes precedence."
So, while Colossus is in its Hero form, the text in its card takes precedence and it can have two tough status cards. However, as soon as it flips to alter ego, that ability is not in effect anymore and the CANNOT rule applies again, discarding one of the tough status cards.
Hi, quantumodo,
I am not genuinely advocating that this digital edition follow the rules in such a way as to make it so Colossus' hero ability and the Steady keyword effects do not actually work as intended.
That said, I've brought up the discussion in another forum and would like to quote someone else refuting the assertion that the Golden Rule clears up this rules conundrum:
You are quoting the Golden Rule and assuming that it has priority over "Cannot", but (on Hall of Heroes' post 1.5 pre 1.6 FAQ) it was ruled that "Cannot" should have priority over everything, even the Golden Rule.
200 – The rules state that “cannot is absolute”, but how “absolute” is it really? Specifically can the “golden rule” take precedence over something that cannot be done according to the rules reference? For example. The rules reference states: “Identity cards cannot be discarded from play” but the side scheme “Mutants at the Mall” (Project Wideawake scenario) states: “Flip this card and put Jubilee into play, discarding any other version of Jubilee from play.” This looks like a very clear golden rule scenario to me, the card text specifically mentions any other versions of “Jubilee” and that should include the identity card with that very same name. However in this situation the golden rule would need to take precedence over a rule that uses the “absolute” cannot. If I were to play this scenario with the Jubilee hero, would the existing rules prevent my identity card from being discarded, because “cannot” is absolute, or would I need to follow the golden rule and thus I would have no choice but to never defeat the “mutants at the mall” side scheme?
It’s still true that identity cards cannot be discarded; Mutants at the Mall does not create an exception to that rule. We try to design the game to have “cannot” overrule just about everything else, even The Golden Rule. The way you should resolve the second sentence of Mutants at the Mall when the Jubilee identity card is in play is to flip Mutants at the Mall, recognize that the Jubilee ally and Jubilee hero are both unique and cannot both be in play, and remove the Jubilee ally from the game (do not put her in the victory display).
The rule that "CANNOT" takes precedence over the "Golden Rule" doesn't make sense because that would cause several heroes' abilities to not work properly, such as Kitty's ability to bypass Crisis icons.
This discussion is quite clear and concise: Colossus's HERO ability allows him to have two Tough statuses, and this ability overrides the basic rule of only one status per character. As soon as he switches to Alter Ego, this constant ability is no longer in effect, meaning he follows the general rules that apply to all other characters in the game, so he must discard one Tough status.
Hi everyone,
Thank you for the engaging discussions.
We have identified two similar situations regarding limits:
“20021” (Side Holster) states:
You can control 1 additional [[weapon]] upgrade that has the restricted keyword.
The “Restricted” rule specifies:
A player cannot have more than two cards with the restricted keyword in play under their control at the same time.
When you lose the “20021” ability, you must immediately choose and discard restricted cards until you have a number of restricted cards in play equal to your limit.
“01073” (The Triskelion) states:
Increase your ally limit by 1.
The “Ally Limit” rule specifies:
Each player is permitted to control a maximum of three allies in play at any given time.
When you lose the “01073” ability, you must immediately choose and discard ally cards until you have a number of allies in play equal to your limit.
These mechanics work because we have a Restricted/Ally Limit Monitor that processes whenever your restricted or ally cards change.
Based on these rules, the alter-ego side of “32001a” (Colossus) does not have the ability:
Colossus can have 1 additional tough status card.
Therefore, when Colossus flips to alter-ego form, he immediately loses this ability, which should trigger a tough limit Monitor.
Additionally, effects that treat him as blank (such as being attacked by “45083a”) will also cause him to lose this ability and should trigger the tough limit Monitor.
However, we have not implemented a tough limit Monitor in the current version (0.5.8.199), so it does not function as intended. We plan to implement this feature in the next version.
Thank you for your understanding!
