Thanks so much for the video, really helpful to see which puzzles are too hard/too/easy/unintuitive. Where you got stuck would fall under “unintuitive” I suppose: from there you need to backtrack then solve to alternate route to get to the other side.
Have been thinking about how to implement some kind of limited hint item, if I can figure something out that works will look to add!
Sometimes the layers look werid. Example: the turtle goes under some tiles.
Overall, the game feels very polished
The first puzzle in the trololo secret area does not restart, locking you out of it if you completed it and then went back. (I did that to check the other areas)
Before finishing:
After finishing (bug, you have to click R, then no way to go back):
The secret area is okay. It's not too hard to find.
Alot of puzzles can be completed in a way that feels unintended. I remember I could finish some puzzles with carts or platforms leftover without using them. Intentional? I don't know.
This will sound vague, but alot of the puzzles can be completed with a simple question "which direction to go next?" It makes it very easy to deduce the solution of the puzzles. Since you only have four directions every time, you basically only have four controls in each puzzle. You only have four choices at max in each step of the puzzles.
I understand some puzzles let you start in wrong positions, this is a good design to prevent easy deduction of the solution.
But once you're in the correct spot, all you have to do is check which direction to go. And most of the time it's very obvious which direction is the right one, because you can eliminate all the directions that AREN'T right, leaving you with the right one.
The puzzle design should prevent this deduction.
But honestly, I couldn't finish this puzzle:
Finally, I got locked here (bug):
For the game experience, it's very enjoyable. Has a nice atmosphere, has nice music that fits the mood.
Thanks for the detailed feedback! Some of those bugs in the secret area are a real mystery to me, I’ll try and figure out what’s going on.
Will work to get the puzzle balance better in the full game. Demo Days are tough as I don’t want to make the demo too long. In the full game I’ll take time with easy “tutorial” puzzles where the route is obvious, then more of the tougher puzzles with more, less obvious options to the solution.
The one you got stuck on took me twice as long to design as the others, so it should be tough! Here’s the solution:
Even in its current state, this is already the best game of DD64 (and of DD50 and DD52). Mostly just needs to fix the visual bugs already mentioned in other comments.
For more abstract higher level feedback, it can get mentally exhausting after a while going through puzzle after puzzle. Maybe there might be a way to pace things somehow with more breather areas or ways to teleport between puzzles, because my current coping strategy to getting tired is to outright stop playing and come back later, which probably isn't ideal.
And not to put too much pressure on the writer, but figuring out the right lore for the game could potentially mean the difference of whether this turns out to be "just" a great game to an all time classic.
Thanks for playing again. You’re too kind. oh_gosh.png
The plan for the full game is to make it less linear, so I’ll try to keep in mind “breather areas”. Hopefully being able to leave puzzles and go somewhere else will take away some of that brain tired.
I have full confidence in my writer, so I’m going to send this to him to put more pressure on him.
I did everything that seemed obvious, gonna guess the rest of the map/book completion is hidden areas?
- the sound cutting in during your logo is odd, maybe wait for that until the title screen
- what's with the title change?
- gamepad didn't work for me, using a Dualsense on Linux. Is that intended?
- the movement sounds are a bit grating, not a fan, the sounds, animation and movement speed also seem weirdly out of sync
- I like how the ice trails fade out on death, gets a bit messy looking though. Maybe consider making specific tiles for it instead of just overlaying the graphics. Would look a lot nicer imo. They also persist on holes you pushed ice blocks into and then slid over
-at first I thought it's nice how it blocks you from walking off edges when they're right next to it but it kept blocking me from convenient suicide. There is the reset button of course, but just stepping into a hole feels better somehow. I think I mentioned this last time as well.
- music is great, no complaints here, but the transition between tracks could need some work. Going from the ice area into the mines sounds particularly bad
- some of the wall decorations animating all at the same time looks off, specifically the bats and lights in the first statue area
- the L O R E seemed a lot more coherent in the older demos but I guess that's just because this one skips a lot of stuff, also piecing it together seems to be the point
- the ice blocks could need some glint animation or something just to drive it home that they are interactable, similar to the breakable spikes
- the variety in mechanics is already great. I love how the ice blocks need to be used in unintuitive ways and the bait minecarts are evil, but not in a bad way
- when you push a minecart or ice block a long way it's a bit annoying how long you're stuck in place.
- some broken y-sorting in a few places
Overall I really enjoyed this. Looking forward to the next one and the completed game.
Thanks for playing it again! And for the detailed feedback. Always really helpful.
Yeah you’re missing the secret areas and the prize book. I think I hid it too well this time; I don’t think anyone’s found it. Will probably put a hint in the thread soon.
what’s with the title change?
Reverted to the working title while my writer friend comes up with new lore
gamepad didn’t work for me, using a Dualsense on Linux. Is that intended?
Intended only because I didn’t add controller support because I don’t use one. Top of the list for next time.
the movement sounds are a bit grating […] also seem weirdly out of sync
Still trying to find the right balance between BGM and SFX levels, perhaps they’re too loud. Also, trying to be authentically Game Boy Color, so have been working with just a noise channel to try and design the SFX. Will give that up if I can’t make them nicer. Re sync: yeah, this was a quick job using animations to trigger audio clips, I think I need a better approach.
ice trails […] gets a bit messy looking though. Maybe consider making specific tiles
Good idea. Again, the messiness is largely due to being a test implementation. That’s a good idea for improvement.
it blocks you from walking off edges […] convenient suicide
Someone else mentioned it this time too! I think you’re both right, have seen other testers struggle with that. Will take away that “safety” “”“feature”””
the transition between tracks could need some work
Just a simple crossfade at the moment. Agree on the messy sound between tracks: planned future improvement will be a dynamic audio system that matches beats etc. (at the moment I’m just reusing tracks I wrote years ago and lost the source files.) I’ll change it to a full fadeout before the new track comes in for now.
the ice blocks could need some glint animation or something
Absolutely agree. All interactables need animation, really.
when you push a minecart or ice block a long way it’s a bit annoying how long you’re stuck in place
Yeah not sure how to fix this: if I let the player move people might think a solution is to “race” the moving item. Could make for some interesting new puzzle twists though.
some broken y-sorting in a few places
Yeah I’m dumb. Noticed but not enough time to fix before DD.
Okay, I went for the secret area. Very based reward.
Noticed a few more things:
It would be nice for the turtle to teleport so you don't have to go around. On a related note, it'd also be nice if you could just walk onto it instead of having to interact.
This puzzle I don't think can be traversed a second time, which combined with the missing turtle results in a softlock.
I don't like how you can't move into the angled pieces when right next to them.
Thanks for playing and the kind feedback! I always doubt the art and am constantly thinking about redoing it all. I suppose that’s a natural result of over-exposure and self-criticism.
Glad you enjoyed the backtracking. I think it was a bit more elegant in previous demos, so hope you’ll enjoy when I have a bit more time to improve the puzzles.
-Text bubble on restart is a bit annoying since it pulls my attention away from the puzzle with filler phrases.
-Minecarts feel intuitive.
-Monkeys are alright, but they feel quite static, since they act like a wall all the time it's just a matter of moving around the slide maze to reach them with the head. After the two monkey head area I back track and go down the other path to do more minecarts.
-I can't walk left to kill myself after the bait minecart, feels like a bug? Though, I guess it's like how you don't walk off the edge unless you slide into it... still.
-Lack of undo is getting annoying. Unless there's a really good reason, it just feels like a waste of life to make me redo everything for one mistake in input.
-At book select, at least in windowed mode, pressing up/down to scroll the selection can make the cursor invisible.
-The 1/2 in the corners of the book feel kind of pointless, since it never seems to be longer than two pages? Also, these notes are so short that numbering them make them seem even shorter. And the numbers are a little too close for comfort with the actual text(spaced like it's the next line of text). So for all those reasons, to me at least it makes sense to remove them.
-I reach a gold block junction, so I guess I need to go back to the monkeys and finish them.
-If you look at a pit after sliding in from the right, there will be an erroneous prompt to put down the head, still there from first sliding in. Also get a prompt to put the head down if you fall down a pit that has a walkable tile directly in front of where you character would be looking if he wasn't falling. Also the prompt sticks around after a level restart.
-I can see the top of the save icon in the bottom right at all times... I hope that's unintentional because it's ugly once you notice. [later] Oh suddenly the entire icon is in view at all times, either it got glitched or previous was the glitch. [later again] OK it seems like if you spam room transitions it confuses the animation and it gets higher or something. It's now 3/4 up my screen... Actually it's more like a rounding bug, it seems to go higher even if I let the animation play in full before doing another room transition.
-Turtle powers. Not much of note, though the left/right sprites are shorter, so it's only like 1/4 of a tile tall when placed down. Not a deal breaker, but making it larger so it's easier to spot for an unobservant player could be nice.
-Ice blocks being unpushable on ice feels odd. Would help sell it if you did an animation where he runs in place, to show it's too slippery to get traction or whatever.
-I get stumped on the 1 ice block 5 icicles room.
-I backtrack and do the stone triangle path, get stuck on the monkey and minecart area. Can't figure how to get the monkey head without consuming the needed bridges.
Well that's enough for now. I remember enjoying the previous demo, this was good too. Having no controller support is ridiculous though.
Thanks for playing again! This is all really helpful.
Text bubble on restart is a bit annoying
That was my concern. Some people seem to like it. Will consider removing if I can’t make it less obtrusive.
I can’t walk left to kill myself after the bait minecart, feels like a bug? I guess it’s like how you don’t walk off the edge unless you slide into it… still.
As you say, That was put in as a bit of a safety. Probably not needed though if it’s unintuitive
Lack of undo is getting annoying.
Someone said this in a previous DD. Considered, but thought it might make it too easy. If it had undo though I could make longer puzzles that are less frustrating. I think you just convinced me!
book select [is janky]
My custom focus code for the hand icon is shit. Will be rebuilding the menus.
The 1/2 in the corners of the book feel kind of pointless, since it never seems to be longer than two pages? […] remove them.
I think I’m going to replace the books with just a single page note for these reasons and because it’s difficult to read when there are only like 3 words per line.
erroneous prompt to put down the head
The prompt logic is still a bit messy after I refactored the player controller. There are lots of other cases where it isn’t working too. On the list!
I can see the top of the save icon in the bottom right at all times.
Spotted this late in testing. I’m dumb and let the icon set its own start position every time, so if it’s called twice quickly it gets a new, on-screen start position. Just need to make the start position a constant.
Ice blocks being unpushable on ice feels odd. Would help sell it if you did an animation where he runs in place, to show it’s too slippery to get traction or whatever.
That’s the exact reason behind not letting them be pushed on ice. Will add that animation!
I get stumped on the 1 ice block 5 icicles room.
I think this is the hardest puzzle in the demo because there are so many permutations. You have to push the block right then down (still on ground), use that to bounce off and destroy all icicles, then push the block into the hole to escape.
stuck on the monkey and minecart area
Get the head first without bridges. Bump both minecarts. Place head. Escape bottom bridge.
no controller support is ridiculous
You’re right! Simply didn’t cross my mind for these early demos. Will add for next time.
Will consider removing [thought bubbles] if I can’t make it less obtrusive.
Some thoughts I had were to move it to the bottom of the screen, so it only covers the outer wall, or to make it semi or fully transparent when you start moving.
That [don't walk off edge while on ice] was put in as a bit of a safety. Probably not needed though if it’s unintuitive
Taking into consideration the lack of an undo, I can see why it's there. If you do add it though, then I think being able to throw yourself off is good for the consistency(or at least it makes more sense to me).
---
Thanks for the hints, I decided to give it another go. Though I couldn't make it back to the monkey room, the stone triangle room seemed to reset in a way so that all paths lead to death. And, the books also reset.
The hard ice puzzle was cool after the block was put into place. I was only solving half the issue before. Difficulty wise, I suppose this is a later area, but in most cases I think it's better to put more challenging puzzles off the main path to get a collectible(book) or some such. But the game seems to be built around an exploratory linearity, you have to do all branches. So idk, maybe that's just how this game is, where the challenge is more of a focus (some gameplay wise but more so with story right now). All that said, with an undo I think it will help make things more reasonable in any case.
Luckily the last few levels didn't need the other branch done, so I was able to do them and finish the game. Fun puzzles, though on the last one the bridge tile seemed pointless as I solved without using. I then re opened my save to try once more at the monkey level and found out that the stone block blocking the way was gone, and went through the door. Bad idea, now I'm softlocked for good since I'm in the bottom left of the puzzle and it can't be solved from here! Too bad for John.
I forgot to screenshot it, but I think my end game stats was 87%, spent the most time in the Bat Country.
A lot of these issues should have been resolved in the latest hotfix version: books not being saved and that push block solving itself leading to a softlock.
Planning to have less linearity in the proper game. The idea being if you get stuck on a puzzle, there are other routes you could take.
The extra bridge tile on “Bat Country” is an accidental red herring. I spent about 2 hours making that map (usually they take me around an hour), but just before DD submission I realised you couldn’t backtrack from there. Bridge was a quick, messy fix to save me from having to redesign the whole puzzle.
Thanks for for playing and for the detailed feedback! The video is really helpful.
01: Noticed a flashing frame after compile, never took the time to figure out what it was because deadline. That should be easy to fix.
02: Yeah the hand focus logic is really janky. Will need to redo entirely.
03: A few reports of this. I think adding in some more safety stop() commands should sort it.
04: I think this happens when you’re standing on ice/gold. I recently rebuilt the movement controller. Spotted this late, should be a simple fix.
05: That’s a new one! Thanks for the report.
06: Yeah saw this in late testing. I’m dumb and let the icon set its own start position every time. Just need to make it a constant.
07: I think I fixed this in hotfix #1: put some custom logic in room “Storage” to prevent that block behaviour. Will make a more robust fix later.
08/09: That’s strange, there should only be one turtle in the first water room.
10: There’s a deliberate “illusory wall” tile somewhere that leads to a few extra challenges and the final book (I don’t think anyone has found it yet). Hint: it looks like a misplaced tile. Maybe I accidentally put another non-blocking wall in an unintended place.
If no one finds the secret in a day or so I’ll pop a hint in the thread.
11: If I’m thinking of the same part, should have been solved by hotfix #1.
12: Agreed. Going to redo menus entirely, they’re a bit “dev-mode” at the moment.
13: Another victim of the new movement controller (04). On the fix list.
14: Interesting! Will try to replicate.
15: Not sure what you mean here. There was a bug where books weren’t saving between sessions, should be resolved with hotfix #2.
Web version
I got really confused not being able to push mine cart *Am I pushing it from wrong side somehow?*. Most people will figure it out but some will drop it and send you a bug report. Showing that you have to have momentum may not be enough here, if you show it some players won't realize anyway, so show + explanation may be needed.
Played first time ever, here are stats:
Game time: 38:33
Deaths: 39 (some are from testing but only a few)
Map completion: 78.1%
Books: 14/16
Longest solve time: 5:38 (Bat Country)
Most deaths: 9 (Bat Country)
On first try gave up on level below AGDG room, booted game again and figured I could place Ice block how i want but I would say it was the hardest one for me. Bat cave took more time/tires but prob because it has more options to consider so amount of time and deaths may not be the best metric to see what's most difficult, instead it shows what's most complex.
Thanks for the detailed feedback! I kind of rushed you into the deep end for this demo. I’ll make sure to have a puzzle to explain that you need momentum to hit objects next time.
I think the puzzles just south of the /agdg/ logo are the toughest in the demo: so many permutations with the ice blocks. This whole demo was a bit of a rush job so I don’t think I balanced it properly: the alternate route going right of the /agdg/ logo is much easier so gg on getting through hard mode.
Thanks for playing! The diegetic door idea is great; will look to implement something like that!
I definitely want to include a map! Thinking of a simple SotN boxes-and-connectors thing. Just need to decide on implementation: auto-generation or one big manually drawn sprite.
I don’t have an Anbernic device to test an ARM port on, but will look into it.
This is now fixed. Turns out it was a known Godot issue: I was using the new resource UIDs to save references to the books you’ve collected, but resource UIDs don’t work after compilation ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks again for letting me know!
Very good game. The music is good and the puzzles are satisfying. The taunts when you lose/restart are a nice touch. One visual glitch I noticed though, seems like the minecarts spawn facing the wrong way on a vertical track. It was a little confusing to me which direction to hit them when I first saw them . See screenshot below. Good game though, looking forward to the release!
Thanks! Minecarts have a spawn orientation variable, I’m just dumb and forgot to set that one (and probably more)
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