We need a 'grown up' discussion and clarification on whether the use of Generative AI is accepted in AmiGameJam entries, and if so whether they are treated in the same manner and judged alongside entries that have not used AI.

AI is an incredibly capable technology that empowers people to achieve things they couldn't possibly achieve before. In the context of AmiGameJam this should in theory motivate more people than ever to make games they never could, make better games than they could in the same time or less. Sounds great doesn't it? More entries, better games, it's 'win-win' right?

Only it's not that simple. Some people are either excluded from, don't want to or object to using AI. A non-exhaustive list of reasons includes:

• Moral or ethical objections on grounds of energy use, environmental impact, IP infringement during training, possible job replacement, doomsday scenarios, big-tech surveillance & tracking etc.
• The requirement of a paid subscription plan to make effective use of the tools. Free tier plans often use inferior models with low usage limits.
• It takes the fun out of the hobby for them.
• They feel it's against the spirit of indie retro development and the competitive nature of a game jam

But 'It's just a tool' and 'personal choice' right? Let's address those arguments:

Over the last year or so the progress in LLM capability and long-horizon 'agentic work' harnesses such as Claude Code, Cowork and Codex coupled with 'tool calling' and 'computer use' capabilities enabled via MCP have resulted in autonomous systems that can work for extended periods of time with minimal human creative input required to produce every ingredient in game making (code, artwork, music, voice samples, sfx etc) and combine them into a polished final product. 

AI - for better or for worse - is now quite unlike any other tool in history. Tools have traditionally been targeted to a specific task, and still require human skill, practice and experience to master and use effectively. AI is a 'meta-tool' - a tool that can use many tools, and as a result can count across a large spectrum of 'contribution' to a final game. Anything from 'create an icon' or 'help me fix this bug' at one end to 'write the whole game' at the other. Human creative input ranges from 0-100%

This should all be considered within the context of AmiGameJam. If people want to make games with AI outside of that and make them available, that should be up to them. But AmiGameJam is a competition, a friendly competition that should be motivating all of us to get involved, up our game and add to the collective output. But it's clear from discussions I've seen that some devs are feeling an opposite demotivating factor from the inclusion of games made using AI in an indie retro dev competition, seeing it as either inappropriate or a non-level playing field.

Since AmiGameJam 9 is already in progress and the rules make no mention of AI, I think we need clarification on the policy. Decisions on whether to develop and/or submit entries may depend on the policy chosen. That's a difficult decision for the host (Cammy) to make so we can help out by discussing it in hope of a consensus being reached. Some options (I'm sure there are more so let rip in the replies!):

1. Exclude games made using AI
2. Include games made using AI in the event but exclude them from the final results rating.
3. Stream games into AI & non-AI categories with separate ratings.
4. Accept AI usage and judge all games together regardless (the status-quo option.)

Personally I'd lean towards options 2 or 3. But What do you think?

Ultimately any policy decision is of course going to subject to truthful disclosure of AI use through the appropriate itch tags and game descriptions. Some may argue this alone makes any policy decision pointless and unenforceable, but it can still be discussed and opinions collected and curated.

Finally, I've tried to keep this post balanced, outlining the pros & cons of AI, and describing the situation as I see the facts without resorting to emotional, partisan or abusive arguments. Let's try to keep the discussion likewise.

Everyone should honestly describe if they used AI. Unfortunately, not everyone is honest enough. It should be a separate category. We have no problems with it.

If this is supposed to be a fun, friendly competition then ban the use of AI, it takes the fun out of it for everyone involved and for the people following the competition, AI has infected everything already does it really have to infect the retro community as well

Regarding the use of AI in AmiGameJam

I started these game jams as a fun way for the community to work on game projects together, and maybe some of them would be inspired to go further and publish their games or make better ones. I've tried to find prizes to give the winners along the way, and sometimes those prizes may have been the incentive to enter, but generally I don't think many people enter for the prizes, they do it because they enjoy the challenge.

But the playing field has never been even or equal, as there have been beginners competing with professionals all along, individuals taking on the whole load going against groups of people contributing to a single game. The rules have always allowed for collaboration, as long as everyone involved was credited. When the community and the guest judges evaluate each of the games, they can take into consideration the amount of effort that was put in by the author, and how much they outsourced, and rate the entry objectively. If the game was made with a game-maker like Backbone, or with Scorpion Engine, we know it may have been quicker and easier to put together than one written in Assembly, and we know that getting ready-made art and music from online resources doesn't take as much effort as creating it from scratch.

So when someone wants to enter the jam with an entry that includes AI-generated content, the same rules apply; it must be credited, so we can see who made what, and how much effort was put in by the author. It's really no different than collaborating with a professional, or using freely available game assets. And if an AI somewhere spontaneously decides to enter the jam, creating a game entirely by itself, well then they're free to do so, although I wouldn't expect it. And I don't know what they'd do with the prizes if all the humans voted for it to win.

So everyone please remember that this contest is about the community having fun, and it's the community and human judges who decide which games deserve to win.

You said you started the jams for the community to have fun but there's already been devs that said they left the jam just because they don't want to compete with AI slop, there's also been non-devs that have said that they've stopped caring about the jam altogether because of all the AI slop on there.

That means some people just don't find it fun any more.

You can create an AI game any where anytime and publish it and stick your 9 bucks tag on it. Where already seeing it, good luck with that. It doesn't need to be entered into a gamejam. Cammy summed it up well enough for me not to need to say any more or worry about it. The SLOP for cash is the problem, so lets watch out for that.

my toaster wants to join the game jam but it burnt my crumpets this morning and refuses to apologise, so I won't allow it

#neverslop

I understand Cammy's point but one of the entrants seems to be churning out sports games on a very regualr basis and I did read a post on another forum where someone had literally asked AI to port a game for them.  Surely this is not the sort of thing we want for the Jam?  I accept that maybe the quality of the AI games is not always great and can't necessarily compete with properly handcoded or human made games as they must be more difficult to fine tune but I agree that without some sort of subdivision you risk alienating us old fashioned coders!