Post by Happensmaker in Second Helpings comments

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So the Extra Caloric Shake (2x High Caloric Nutrient Serum from Uni) and the Dizzy Delight Concentrate are a bit weird...

If you feed normally via hose, the Extra Caloric is stronger than the Dizzy Concentrate, first giving (for me atm) 600k+ and the second 350k calories.
But while on stream Extra Caloric is giving only 150k, granted you can use it 4 times in one timeslot, but it is still 4 uses instead of 1.
Dizzy Concentrate still gave me 350k on stream. So even though there is a fail % to not be able to use it, it is still stronger then Extra Caloric.

Feels a bit unbalanced.

Also there is supposed to be a reaction with Dizzy Concentrate, but I can't seem to trigger it. Though from flavor text, it seems to have triggered (at least in stream).

So am I missing something? Because a Feeder can trigger it, by feeding me Food and then add a hose feeding in the same timeslot, which ends in over a mil calories even with pre-blob stages.
But as a Player Feeder, the only way I see to do that is via stream, but there it doesn't seem to work.

Any ideas or is it bugged?

Taylor Applebrook5 days ago

Thank you for the detailed analysis!

I can see now that with all the bonuses available (perfect cooking, cooking skill bonuses & upgrades, high end kitchen equipment), it's possible to make custom shakes stronger than the concentrate using the high calorie ingredient from Obesity Research.

The problem with that, though, is the concentrate is supposed to be the all-powerful, ultimate hose feed shake. That's why it has all the special flavour text of characters rapidly fattening and the difficult persuade checks.

I don't want to make it too easy to fatten characters, as it cheapens the game. So, with that in mind, I'll add a potency cap to custom shakes, that allows you to still make them substantially more fattening than the batter, but not to the level of the concentrate.

The concentrate is supposed to be fixed at 350k calories, but the NPC feeder's upgrades are incorrectly boosting it, thank you for noticing & reporting this! I'll get that fixed. Similarly, your feeder bonuses aren't applying to hose feeding on stream. I'll fix that too.

Happensmaker5 days ago (1 edit)

Huh, kinda a bummer to find out that that is a bug and not a feature. But yeah, if it wasn't intended to be that way I can understand.

It was actually quite funny, when I was frenzying for 3 days and nonstop feed a girl the extra caloric shakes. Which gave basically a mil calories each.
With which I even skipped some blob stages because of the rapid weight gain.
Best part was especially the OF weight graph going stonks to the moon. xD

EDIT: Actually I would kinda like it, if we could find a compromise and not straight up nerf the High Caloric Nutrient, because they do cost 50 points each and you need two for the strong shake, while the Dizzy Concentrate only costs 20 credits.
Which puts 100 points against 20 credits. Or 5-10 daily tasks Research against 2-5 daily task Lab.

Maybe actually implement something that creates a reaction with the concentrate, like the ones I experienced with the feeder.

Happensmaker5 days ago (2 edits)

WARNING! Wall of text incoming!

Hmmm...the more I think about it, the more it gets complicated. Because it can throw up everything right now if you lower the potency of the strongest shake.

I'm actually struggling to put everything into words

The first tl:dr: If you lower the potency of Extra Caloric Shakes below Dizzy Concentrate and cap it, the imediate new weight-gain-META will become Extra Caloric Snacks with Gantry Feeder.

If we start with just lowering the potency of the GOAT shake (instead of always writing Extra Caloric Shake) below Concentrate and cap it let's say at 300k, then Concentrate is the strongest again.

BUT if you also fix the Live-stream problem of not adding bonuses, suddenly the GOAT shake becomes extremly powerful in the stream, because you can hose-feed 4 times per timeslot.
Granted you could also use the Concentrate 4 times, but it comes with a Chance (altough a bit higher) to fail. And if you fail once you cannot retry for the rest of the stream.
But with the GOAT shake you can do 4 hose feedings without issue (if capactiy allows).

SO, you have to cap the GOAT shake lower to not drastically outperform Concentrate in Live-streams. That in turn lowers it's viability drastically, because of the effort to aquire 1 GOAT shake that I mentioned in my previous post.

THIS in turn will lower the worth of the Obesity Research, because after acquiring every One-time* purchase you want (Gantry Feeder, Batch Oven, etc,), you don't really have a need to interact with the Research again, since the high nutrient serum is not worth the effort for the GOAT shake, compared to the Concentrate.

*One-time purchase are things you buy only once and not on a repeated demand

BUT, now comes in the Extra Caloric Snacks. Where you can make, with the Oven and Pro kitchen, a batch of 52 snacks. For me atm the give 65k each.
A short calculation later makes that a total of 3.38 mil calories. WAAAAAAY past the GOAT shake and the Concentrate. And I only used 2 High Caloric Nutrient Serum.

Even though it is over a longer period for those calories, the effort is way smaller, compared to (then) useless GOAT shakes and Concentrate (also because of the fail Chance).
And while the Gantry Feeder does it's work with those 52 snacks, you have enough time to acquire more High Caloric Serum and fill the Gantry Feeder with even more snacks. So the never ending loop "The Factory must grow!" becomes the new META, but in this case we better call it "The Feedee must grow!"

The second tl:dr: To combat the Extra Caloric Snacks being new META you have to lower everything, therefore also slowing down early game progress and gains strongly.

As a reference: I have a 90+ cooking level, so all calorie numbers are based on that with all the bonuses. That is also why I can reach 65k per snack.

NOW to combat that, you also have to lower the calories per Extra Caloric Snack. Let's say as reference 3 times what the Concentrate can give, so 1 mil. Which makes with rounding 20k.
Sounds like a reasonable trade off. Way more time for 3 times the calories.

BUT now we have a new problem. The best normal ingredient you can buy with just money is the Weight Gain Powder (as far as I know). If I make with my skilllevel a same base and 2 Powders snack (Extra Bulking Snack), I get 18k per Snack.
Now suddenly the High Caloric Nutrient isn't so high caloric anymore...

SO to stop High Caloric Nutrient from becoming obsolete, you now have to lower every other ingredients caloric value.
And that balancing down, will slow down the early game strongly since nothing really gives you any calories at that point.

Keep in mind, all the numbers above are using the best case scenario. Meaning Perfect cooking, Pro kitchen and oven, to get 52 snacks. Skilllevel and bonuses can be disregarded, since they scale at the same rate.

So now with the early game slowed down, it will take much longer to get the stronger stuff. Since you have to reach, I think, enormous stage with one character until the Research Lab contacts you.

All in all I think you have to thread carefully, with balancing/nerfing the GOAT shake. It can throw up the whole gameplay.
We defintily have to discuss this topic of balancing some more, to find a satisfying solution.

EDIT: Oh, and also considering the reaction of the Concentrate not always triggering, (as far as I now understand it is random with no conditions) makes this even more of a pain to balance

Taylor Applebrook5 days ago

It's definitely tricky to balance things when there are so many options! Having read through your comments & thought it over, I've decided not to nerf this shake. After all, it uses end-game content and your own ingenuity to access it, which is beyond what it takes to get the concentrate.

I'll lean into the possibilities and try to make sure the scene showing rapid fattening triggers based on how much is gained at once (instead of being limited to the concentrate).

Happensmaker4 days ago

I do have an idea, but it depends on how far you are willing to go with rapid weight gain.

But first, the Live-Stream problem.
I thought about something like a canister for viewer interactions that you can buy or unlock (just like the Hose feeding) for the Streams.
Hose feeding will no longer be available in stream but the Canister will replace that function.

You can fill that canister with one shake or one Concentrate (with consent of course), which will hold for the whole timeslot. You have to refill every timeslot.
Now you can either manual start a pumpsession (1/4 of a timeslot) or make it viewer donation driven. Meaning viewers can donate to start the pump for a certain period of the time dependend of amount paid.

That way you can limit the GOAT shake to not be overpowered in stream but level it with the Concentrate.
Logically if you use the canister contraption, the streamer can no longer eat snacks or donated meals, since there is a constant pipe in her mouth, but still engage chat and fondle her belly.

Now to further spice it up, you could also add a donation cap value, which determines how much liquid can be pumped before the canister is empty.
For example let's say 400$. This means 1 manual pump has equal worth to 100$ (no spending if the girl belongs to you). Now if the chat donates so much that it exceeds the 400$, the canister empties which gives you the ability to refill it and fit 2 or more shakes in one timeslot.

It's all just an idea, so you are free to choose to implement something like this or not. First the canister itself and second the donation goal.
Imo the donation goalwould actually boost the engagment with the Live-Stream mechanic and also reward late game players with multiple shakes feeding.

Now back to the Concentrate. Let's say for now we keep the function as it is. Meaning it has a fail check and random reactions for rapid weight gain (the 350k cap you spoke of earlier).

Now...let's make it the GOAT again.
How about, we add a secret questline to the game?

The Obesity Research doesn't actually produce any results with their research, they just reward you with points that you can spend.
But what would happen, if they stumble upon the Concentrate?

Let's say they are oblivious to the Concentrate and don't know it exist. They only know that Dizzy Donuts are addicting.
Now if you would fatten up the researcher to the point of immobility and have them transferred to the Care Center, you are now able to hosefeed the concentrate. If you do, it will trigger the questline.

What the questline entails, I don't know. But in the end you will get an extremly valuable item that you can buy at Research (like 200 points).
This item will get the same treatment as the Mintleaf in "Monty Python's The Meaning of life". Not the bursting of course but the reaction.

So to trigger the Special Concentrate reaction you have to feed in one day, a snack or shake with the special Item in it and finish it off with the Concentrate feeding. If you succeed you get the Special reaction where all the calories gained that day will get multiplied.
Basically ballooning taken literally. Doesn't even need to be a 2x multiplier, since that could get crazy.

That way the Concentrate get's back it's place as the GOAT item.

But if you want to implement something like this, depends as I said on your stand of rapid weight gain.
And those are all just ideas ;)

Taylor Applebrook4 days ago(+1)

Very interesting ideas, especially the secret questline!

My current plan for development of the game is to fix all bugs introduced by the big update I just released, then I'll get started with drawing sprites for the full body images.

Unfortunately, this means I'm unlikely to do any significant changes to systems beyond fixing things for a while. I do want to keep expanding livestreaming and other existing content in the future, though, and I'm always happy to receive suggestions to note down.

Happensmaker4 days ago

No worries ;)
I do know that my ideas are new mechanics and not just small balancing fixes. So they will have to wait for a dedicated update.

I do have some more ideas, but as I said in my review comment, I will wait with them. The Cansiter in Live-Streaming idea was actually one of them. Just got pushed up earlier because of the sudden balancing idea ^^

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