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Strive: Conquest

A successor to first Strive For Power game, currently at alpha stage · By Strive4Power

Crafting Blind

A topic by furthest_flung created 34 days ago Views: 295 Replies: 7
Viewing posts 1 to 4
(6 edits)

I don't know if you were inspired by my actually calculating out worth in terms of the labor it takes to make them, but in the new crafting menu, you can't see how much labor it takes to make anything.  What's worse, if I go into the work assignment menu, if I click on something like fishing, each character has a number next to their name that is four times what they'll produce.  (Why is it four times?  If someone has a rating of 100, it means they'll produce 25 fish per turn.  Just say 25.)  If I assign someone to the generic "crafting" now, however, I'm told absolutely nothing.  How good are they at each type of crafting?  WHO KNOWS?!

If someone were a new player seeing this menu for the first time, there's nothing even indicating which jobs take phys and which jobs take wits.  They'd have absolutely no idea how to assign any of these jobs, find out that they're getting bad results or working very slowly and likely getting frustrated with how ridiculously opaque the system is.

It also covers up some of the trap options like bread.  (That is, most cooking is useful because making 3 fried fish from 2 raw food for 0.16 labor is better than just fishing more for another fish for 0.2 labor.  Bread takes 3 grains to produce 4 food for 0.5 labor, making it actively detrimental, especially when turning 3 raw food into 4 curry takes a third of the labor.  Worse, bread is only 2 gold to buy and often quite readily available, so you can just harvest fish for 0.2 LU, sell them for 2 gold apiece so you can buy a bread for each fish you sell.  Why would you ever make bread yourself when it's actively wasting labor?)

Especially in the early game, I don't have much I need to craft.  If I need to pull the tailor off of fishing or whatever for a round, I'll look at how much LU she can produce that turn, like say 14 LU, look at what I'm going to craft, like a robe and pants, and how that takes 9 LU, and see that I have 5 excess LU so I'll stuff some maid headbands into the queue to not waste the labor, then pull the tailor back off the next round to do resource production.  Now, you're just blind as to any of this.

It also makes the resources box basically useless for crafting, since it will show that you're going to produce a fried fish next or something with zero indication of how much labor that takes, who is making it, how good they are at making it, or what will be made next.  There should be multiple characters making different degrees of progress on multiple different items, but only one is shown.  You just get an empty meaningless progress bar that tells you nothing, screw you!

Aside from it really being necessary for players to be able to see what it actually costs them to make things in the crafting screen, you absolutely have to give players an indicator how much labor they will produce for each of the jobs in the work screen.

In fact, while I'm at it, you really need the tooltip to tell players what the difference is between "materials" and "items" are in the work menu, because it took me staring at it for several seconds to figure out.  Especially since this game keeps mislabeling things like "food" as "materials," so I can't really trust what the translation is.  (I mean in the inventory sorting filter categories, there's a "materials" category that shows food, and a "materials" category that shows raw materials.)  

There needs to be a label on each item you can make in the crafting menu whether it counts as "materials" or "items" labor, because cooking is listed as producing both, but what, is whiskey a material (because it can be used for further crafting) or is food the material because the food category is mislabeled "materials"?  Or are they all material and there are no "item" foods you can cook?  People should be able to understand these things in the game without having to open up the files to figure it out.

(+1)

What you said is right.

Besides, regarding your last doubt. I think I can answer some questions. Items are classified according to whether they can be directly used by characters. It's better to understand it this way based on the props and materials in the game. Whisky and beer, these foods, can be directly provided to the character in the inventory.

The rest of the food includes basic items such as fish, meat, vegetables, grains, and advanced fish cakes. None of them can be used directly Of course, when you go on a date, you can treat the NPC with food.

Pretty sure the work is on a 'per day' basis, rather than 'per turn'. Thus the effective x4.

That's a really weird standard to have, however, as everything you do is per-turn, so making it per-day and making us divide by four to get the real answer is highly unintuitive...

(1 edit)

Another thing I notice after messing with this some more is that you can't tell someone to prioritize upgrading over cooking food (which is apparently a "material") without turning cooking off for them entirely.  You can prioritize what items they make, but there is no option to change whether to prioritize items over materials.  (Which would be important for classes like blacksmith if the purpose of this new crafting screen is to make it possible to save your blacksmiths for the items where quality matters and have lower-phys workers make all the steel they work with or the like.)  

At least by looking at how cooking materials put to the bottom and upgrading put to the top goes, "materials" are always prioritized over "items," which is the opposite of what you would want if you want to have your smiths prioritize making the items but make materials like steel when they have nothing better to do, while you would ban non-smiths from making smithing items.

EDIT: Also, there's no indication of which jobs take what tools.  How is a new player supposed to know that the proper tool for tailoring is a hunting knife if nothing tells them that?  It's not exactly intuitive.  (I also don't have enough spare tools for everyone to have every tool until very late game, and so this entire system where characters do tasks they don't have tools for is just actively annoying...)

just untoggle tasks that you don't want them doing

If I need to manually toggle all these tasks for every work order, that's negating the presumed intent of making things less micromanagement-heavy.  

In fact, it can make it harder to use a smith because now I need to turn smith materials on and off to change whether the smith should prioritize something like making steel or making items.  In the previous edition, I could simply load up a job to make 10 steel, then a job to make a steel axe, then another job to make 8 steel, then a job to make a steel scythe so that the materials were made just before the product that would consume them.  This is a capability that no longer exists in the current game.

You can make a job to always keep at least 10 steel which would lead to similar behavior