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One Joyful Day5 days ago

In 90s I really liked puzzle games and played a lot of them. Lately I very rarely see a puzzle game that I really want to play all the way to the end.

Hence, dont take this as a negative feedback, although I did stop after maybe 6 levels.

Puzzles were basically quite good actually. I would have loved this back then, but now it just felt yet another puzzle, and any small issue would make me end playing already.

First problem, which wouldnt be a problem if there be a story, was the levels recursive system, one depth is okay, but one it goes two, and I think this went three layers down, that feels like I have to start memorizing things, which is not what I want. I dont want to memorise things in puzzle games, but I want to solve puzzles.

Second was when the magnet levels came. It was otherwise actually pretty fun idea, but I absolutely hated that when I used magnets to shrink the level, I had to remember what was between there.

That was the point when I decided I had tried enough. Two different things to memorize was too much for me.

The controls were good, and things were essentially pretty easy to figure out, that only thing that took, perhaps too long, especially when considering that I did read the instruction texts, which actually did say this, but didnt remember it anymore.

But what I kept trying constantly was to move my character into this dead end piece, and then I would try to flip that dead end piece while my guy was inside it, this was since there have been countless other games where system was that. I just couldnt figure out how to get it to rotate while I was inside, so finally I resorted to hints, which showed that I was actually supposed to swap those two white pieces.

So yes, it took basically bit too long to figure that one out, which was mainly since it was contrary to how other bit siilar kind games have worked before, but then again, that hint system was a saver there, so that was excellent addition.

Basically comes to my mind that might be worth pointing it out to a player that you can swap those tiles, but, on the other hand, maybe it is better not to, but instead perhaps point out to hint system instead. For while it might have been good to having been told I can swap those pieces holding my hand, then I would have missed the hint system, and that hint system is actually pretty good if you are stuck because of a new mechanic you havent figured out, since then you always know just to click the hint button and find out that new mechanic, if that is the problem.

So maybe do add more hand holding, as in telling what to do, on that part, but not telling directly to swap those tiles, but to uose "H" for a hint. That could be perfect solution.

While I played this only very short time, and stopped playing early due to feeling bored due to memorizing things, this was more to do with me not being much interested in puzzle games anymore, rather than game being bad. I actually think your game was probably quite good, just cant say for sure since I tend to feel so negative about puzzle games lately.

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Nadatarama Games5 days ago

First and foremost, thank you very much for the feedback. All appreciated. And thank you as well for hosting the jam. 

I'm curious about the recursion and what you thought you had to memorize, if you have a moment more. You start on what I think of as the map, and then enter a submap (the tutorial), then enter levels on that submap. Each time you enter a level, you descend into it, and each time you finish a level, you rise back out of it. Hopefully there isn't ever a need to memorize a position. But I suppose you do need to reorient yourself each time you rise up? 

The magnet map that you entered next is either appealing or not. Totally okay for it to not be appealing for you: you're not into puzzle games. That's legit - they're not everybody's jam. And if you're not into them, better to bow out early than before I start stacking lots of mechanics and building the crazy stuff. :-)

Tutorials/hints:  exactly one question if you have a moment... Did the hint button light up for you? I've been working on having it do that, especially on the tutorial map, with enough rejected input or unproductive input. That's my quiet way of saying, "Hey, help is here." (By the time you're through a couple of maps, it is supposed to stop doing that.)

Thanks so much for playing, and again, for hosting the jam! Will gladly return the favor when I have a moment.

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One Joyful Day4 days ago

At least didnt notice the hint button being lit up, but then again, Im not sure I paid any attention to that button until I used it, so it could have been lit and I just thought it being at normal stage.

That is also possible since when I quit the game, I quit on a map where the character had magnet in his head, and when I instantly didnt realise how to get forward, I stopped. And only after I had stopped playing I recalled the Hint option, that could have at least used that to see how the, probably new mechanic, had worked. So one possibility is that it was not lit, and I didnt notice/remember for that reason, and perhaps exactly because it was lit, I noticed it in the tutorial.

Recursion was once again having to do with other games actually.

One of the very few puzzle games I have lately enjoyed, was Gentoo Rescue: Gentoo Rescue on Steam

It had similar overworld system, as you went into similar locations, and then it went one layer down, and possibly even another, and then there were the levels.

I guess that might be some system that many puzzlegames nowadays use, I have however seen it only in your game and Gentoo Rescue.

It is basically quite fun system giving bit more depth, and by the way, Gentoo Rescue had same problem as your game, it didnt have any story. I might have bought and played through that Gentoo Rescue, had it had some story in it, but now it was just similarly go from one level to another, similar to yours, that I didnt find enticing enough to play through.

However, in your game it started by going those layers down, which made me afraid that I have to remember, either now, or in the future, what is up there to get forward. So you could say that problem was that first "puzzle" I encountered in your game, was something that made me think I might have to memorize something, by other words, first thing I encountered in your game was something I disliked.

So the layer system in itself is not necessarily bad at all, Gentoo has it too, and although I like it, I do have to say that it is also at same time bit annoying in Gentoo Rescue, since it does make you need to memorize places to get some places. So it is at same time fun and annoying. I would say that boils down to overworld design in the end for me probably, as in, design it right way, and it can be just fun without being annoying at same time.

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Nadatarama Games4 days ago

Thanks again. Gentoo Rescue is a classic of the small genre of puzzle games that respect the player's intelligence, rather than asking for repetition of the same idea, which is what I'm going for. They're mostly plotless, these games; my plot is just hat recovery as a running gag. And they mostly have an overworld puzzle, which grows more ornate as you go on; it's the most important feature of my game by far. But both Baba Is You and Gentoo Rescue have some puzzles before you get into maps, and I should learn from that. You're a great reviewer!!

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