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Can we talk about AI-Assisted games?

A topic by Belle Rivers created 8 days ago Views: 450 Replies: 30
Viewing posts 1 to 10
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I first want to say that it's okay to be with or against AI. I don't have a problem with discussing a controversial topic like this one as long as we RESPECTFULLY agree and disagree. I am stressing on the term "respect", because sometimes disagreeing can be in the form of a spamming bully. šŸ˜”

My friend and I are software engineers and we love games. Playing them, designing them, developing them, thinking about them...whatever involves games we love it. ā¤ļø

We made our first game after 4 months of hard work; learning about game design with courses, tutorials, and trying our best understanding the whole process of publishing a game on Itch.io. Then someone just comes and redefines all our efforts to "AI(p)" or "AI-made". Not only that but he spams us with his comments in our jam comments, in our game comments, replies to people who supported our game, and I won't be surprised if I learn that he/she has more than 1 account while doing this. 

We clearly tagged the game as AI-assisted and gave it credits in our description, but there's some confusion out there that I want to clear up. AI-made and AI-assisted are two different terms (AI slop is a whole 3rd different thing). In my opinion these are the definitions of the 3 terms:

  • AI-made: means someone used AI to create a game with an initial general prompt, then kept accepting everything  (idea, asset, story, mechanic, etc..) from AI. Control is mostly given to AI in this type.
  • AI slop: the terrible horrible result of "AI made" product that relates to anything like media, image, video, game, etc...
  • AI-assisted: using AI to execute some tasks with human in the loop and human reviews and guidance. Control is mostly given to human in this type. 

Our game is the last type, but forget about our game because this is not the case. The thing is there are some people strongly against AI-assisted games because where is your effort when it is all AI-made? Which is something hard to experience because it's just like going against Unity-made games? I'm not sure what we're fighting over here. You love games, I love games. We both do games our own way, what's the problem here?

And some might think: 

"Oh so it's okay for you to steal someone else's art rather than just pairing up with an artist?". 

I'm already pairing up with an artist, but both of us are beginners here. And by the way, I'm an aspiring writer. You know the first people who got affected by AI because AI is originally based on text-generation? I'm one of them! I felt pissed at first but then I thought, people really use it out of need and it'll never replace a human speaking to human. Then I made a choice of writing my everything that can take sometimes hours, just because I like writing. They also said that emojis and "—" are usually used by AI, but who cares? šŸ™„

I don't know if you read this far but seriously people are forgetting that there are actual humans behind the screens they keep writing comments to. I appreciate anyone who respectfully turned out trying our game because that's totally cool, as I said, it's not about the game. It's about your way expressing yourself.🫄

(+3)

I think I generally agree with your take, which is well considered. Maybe I am outside the norm, as I don't have any strong feelings about how others choose to use tools that are available to them, and how they choose to focus their creative abilities. 

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I could say that your entire long paragraph is assisted by AI(P), because on your own you wouldn't be able to create such a long text in such a short time.

AI-made & AI-slop aren't such separate entities and are correlated because they lack the quality of being assisted under human review.

By the way, it's a technology that has been standardized at the worst possible time, still a bubble about to burst and a major component crisis as a result.

Honestly I'm flattered you thought my post is assisted AI(P) because it's not. I've mentioned already that I like to write so why use AI to do it? šŸ˜…

The problem now is that anyone who publishes long and elaborate text, whether they are AI or not, will be thought to be AI.

Yeah unfortunately it bothers me a lot. But that's why not every thought should be considered, because we are who we are right? 😌

because on your own you wouldn't be able to create such a long text in such a short time.

How would you know how long that time was, that you call it a short time?

The only hint that parts of the text might come from ai is the 

  • points list
  • people rarely use these
  • but ai use them all the time.

Well, that was only the feeling I got, since now there's a stigma that writing long sentences in a few minutes or seconds is something AI(P) does.

in a few minutes or seconds

Again. How do you know how long the post did take to write? It is a thread opener post and not a reply. You have no time stamp. And even if you had, the text could have been written somewhere and copied or the tab could have been edited for hours till it was commited.

And what is ai(p) supposed to be? https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22AI(P)%22&ia=web Because it does not exist.
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AI(P) it's actually what I colloquially call "AI", and it comes from the acronym A.I.P. which stands for "Advanced Information Processors".

That's not a term that is in usage. Not written explicit and not as an acronym. Is this a translation issue or a spelling problem?

Look, you're giving too much weight to colloquial terms or idioms whose meaning is sometimes the same.

The fact that a word isn't officially listed in dictionaries doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If someone says it, then it automatically exists; the only difference is that it doesn't become a social or institutional standard.

It is not a colloquial term, if only you use that term. That's called a made up term.

You discuss with people. In public. Do not use made up words or acronyms. It is confusing and irritating. People do not understand what you mean. Exhibit A is me and OP. Your made up words were repeated as if it were some type of ai category. It is not. You just mean that the thing or parts of it were made with gen ai. 

The fact that a word isn't officially listed in dictionaries doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I did not cite a mere dictionary. A search engine does not know those terms.

Most likely in a few days, this very thread here will appear when you search those terms. I am not kidding. I have seen this happen several times with Itch threads.

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And don't you think that made up terms can also fall into the category of colloquialisms?

Do you know how many terms that were previously just made up ended up working for more widespread use over time?

By the way, don't demand that people stop using the new words they like to say, because sometimes it's a form of personal identity, a way to not feel the same as everyone else, and if that made up word happens to work for many people, your complaint will no longer be valid.

Nor should you blindly trust search engines if they don't give you the results you want, the same goes for AI.


It is not a colloquial term, if only you use that term. 

P.S: But you and Belle have also mentioned AI(P), so I'm not the only one who said the word anymore, only the difference is that you will forget it very soon, but I won't. 

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Do you know why I call AI AI(P)? Because it is not a simulator of human intelligence, but an advanced information processor, they are predictive models that bring the most probable results instead of the most correct ones or the ones they really want.

It's the reason you used the AI just to assist and then they reviewed it to give your personal touch.

You're totally right about AI being a predictive model. And that's exactly my point! In my opinion, it doesn't matter that someone used AI-assistance to build their game as long as it's an enjoyable nice game and the developers have their unique touch in it. ā˜ŗļø

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Gosh. I don't personally care for AI-made or assisted games, but I don't think anyone should be attacking anyone for making a game with AI as long as it is tagged and credited properly. With a tag, people can opt to filter it in or out, so there's really no reason to stop by just to attack someone willfully. That's just plain harassment - it's abuse, and a reportable offense at that.

/docs/legal/terms

Prohibited actions include but are not limited to:
  • Uploading viruses or malicious code or acting in any manner to restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Service;
  • Spamming or sending repeated messages, junk email, contests, surveys or any unsolicited messages;
  • Posting unlawful, misleading, malicious, or discriminatory content;
  • Bullying, intimidating, harassing, defaming, threatening others, or violating the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others;

I would recommend blocking known harrassers from commenting in your game page. If it persists and multiple accounts are created to continue doing so, you may want to report the abuse directly to the Itch Io team. You can do so via the support page, if I'm not mistaken.

Bear in mind that it is a different thing if you've asked the user directly to try your game and they gave you a bad review, though - and if you've purposely entered Game Jams that prohibit AI works of any kind or level. That's just asking for it - kicking the hornets' nest, if you will.

Thank you for sharing these resourcesšŸ™šŸ»

And yes of course we don’t join jams that prohibit AI-assistance. We even ask the hosts if they’re okay with it before joining if they didn’t mention it in the jam’s rules. There’s also no problem with a negative review concerning the game itself. Actually that could even better because to develop the game more we need to have constructive criticism.āœŒšŸ» Yet, having a negative review about the game by just judging the tool we used moderately is what strikes me the most. šŸ˜•

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Yet, having a negative review about the game by just judging the tool we used moderately is what strikes me the most. šŸ˜•

Ah, well, that's the nature of reviews and ratings overall. I've gotten low ratings and poor reviews by people who hated my art style, as well as low ratings because my game has gay characters in it. No matter how moderately you've used a tool, or who your target audience are, there will be a few who will be vehemently against it. I remember digital artists in the past getting trolled a lot for using the Burn and Dodge tool in Photoshop back in the day (and yes, they drew and colored everything by hand). A lot of people just get off being hateful - and telling themselves that they're right in going out of the way to attack others because they somehow possess a moral high-ground.

It is why a lot of innocent men and women have been burnt as witches in the past. Human beings have not changed much at core, I'm afraid.

Though... if it helps, have you considered making a game without any Generative AI assistance at all, by using pre-made assets, supplemental code and tools by other creators and developers, just to see if there's a difference in reception and community? Granted, it is the sloooooow old way of doing things, and the way to choose and curate your assets will be different - but it does allow you to explore a different kind of workflow, development and player community.

It's a bit like... bringing different leftover food from a community potluck together and cooking a whole new meal from them, if you will; very quaint and mix-and-match, and very creative in its own way. It's got a lot of challenges and limitations compared to using AI to generate assets, but the community seems to appreciate the effort and unexpected uses from what I've personally experienced.

Anyway, if you're new to this method of making games and you don't know yet, you can download free pre-made handdrawn/3D-modeled/pixel character sprites from Itch Io itself;

Free backgrounds (Although I also get my backgrounds from photo stock sites such as Pexels and Unsplash)

Free Music on Itch Io. I tend to get my sounds and music from FreeSound and Kevin MacLeod.

And free development tools created by other developers on Itch Io. Some of these are full-blown engines, mind.

For reference, two examples of games come to mind (I tend to prefer narrative games, so very obvious bias here):

Orchid Duet by Pyrrhaiphis uses pre-made sprite and background assets that they've painted over, as well as a medley of backgrounds, music and coding from other developers;

Three Turtle Doves by Alice D Games uses pre-made sprites, backgrounds and music mostly as-is; they're mixed and matched to fit their narrative.

The Game Jams that you get to join will be different too. Looking at your profile pic of that girl from that Disney show, the Once Upon A Time Game Jam might be up your alley. It's one of the traditional, long-running Game Jams (meaning it's an annual one that has been hosted for more than two years consecutively) with a lot of people joining it to just watch the feed and play the games.

It's not a bad idea to try doing things differently to experience a different community, methinks. Might widen your circle a little bit.

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Oh, what you're describing is more about artistic discrimination than giving a low rating for not making good art.

Regarding the profile pic of Belle Rivers, her name is Vanellope Von Schweetz (Wreck-It Ralph), and her game jam recommendation is based on a very reductionist view of the character, simply because she is a Disney Princess and especially because of her fan-service scene in RBTI.

What made Vanellope different from the rest of the princesses was that she doesn't come from any adaptation of any classic fairy tale, she comes from video games (which, by the way, are not exactly free of titles that use the aforementioned) and from the modern era, to the point of proclaiming herself "president".

Vanellope made me question how Disney uses the term "Princess" in all its products, and looking at her design and the theme of the movie made me think that maybe she shouldn't be a princess, much less a Disney one.

Do you know why Randy & Manilla exists? Because it's the work of a big fan who has strongly disagreed with how Disney treated the character (especially in RBTI).

But putting all that aside, it was eye-opening for me.

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People have lost their minds over this issue. I expect it to die down once products not using AI assistance in code and art become a tiny minority. Let people enjoy their virtue signaling AI purity until no one cares anymore, and block the trolls.

What you're saying is almost a declaration of war on people who don't use AI(P) (or hardly at least) for their work, and you want it to be the dominant force just because it's the fastest and most efficient.

But there is one thing that AI(P) will never have: Human judgment, which is why in AI assisted there is still some human judgment.

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Declaration of war? lol. Look there will always be room for old fashioned ways of doing things. I personally think hand churned butter tastes better too. I'm just pointing out that most people will adopt new technology and move on with their lives.

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Some old things come back due to the nostalgia trend, although within specific niches (for example, vinyl records).

You say that AI(P) is the standard (it only started being from 2025) and is the majority.

But what happens when a technology superior to AI arrives? 

Wouldn't you feel displaced and start complaining about why people are abandoning AI?

Are you responding to my posts or what want me to say so you can argue with me? You mentioned declaration of war and now you want my opinion on superior AI intelligence.

Bro, this is a wendys.

What I call it is the "cycle of standards", where new ones replace old ones, and AI will be no exception.

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AI-made and AI-assisted are two different terms

Itch only asks, if the assets and or code have ai generated content. AI-made or AI-assisted have no meaning in the filter and browse system - despite Itch naming it "ai assisted". I consider this misleading. And it only means that you clicked one or more of the asset/code categories in the disclosure question.

But people do not know this, because this is hidden away in the forum. They have no way of knowing how you created the game. Unless you tell them, and they believe you. 

As you point out, there can be a meaning in ai assisted and you can also make that term mean something different as ai made.

Imagine toy bricks. One bucket has machine made bricks. The other bucket has hand carved bricks. Now a child builds a play house with the machine made brickes. And a robot controlled by an ai agent is tasked to assemble a house with bricks from the other bucket.

The child made a human made toy house. But the bricks are machine made. It fulfills the ai assets category on Itch. And if the child used a machine made blueprint, it also fulfills the code category.

The robot made a robot made toy house. But since the bricks are human made, it does not fulfill the ai asset category on Itch. It probably will fulfill the code category. While you could use a human made blueprint, the assembly of the asset blocks will be generated by the ai.

I think this is a good illustration how those things are not as clear as one might think.

Ai "assistance" in particular is practically meaningless. Depending on whom you ask, using an ai for a single question in development would already be "assistance". While others might assume general help of ai, or even ai agents that do more things.

In my opinion, people use "ai made" and also "ai assisted" in the sense of this concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonymy . They use part of the thing to describe the whole. Since parts of the game are ai generated, they call the whole thing ai generated or ai made.

AI made was used to refer to such games, even before there were ai agents that could literally make the games. Or "assist" in making the games. Now that it is possible, there is ambiguity.

Your example really shows the ambiguity between the terms. šŸ‘ŒšŸ»

AI is evolving fast and if these terms are not clear enough, then some people’s efforts will go in vain. šŸ˜•

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it’ll never replace a human speaking to human

I wish that were true. In reality, people are forced to or are choosing to talk to a LLM instead of another human being every day.

I’m a bit concerned you haven’t noticed that. Maybe you’re sheltered from abusive ā€œcustomer supportā€ systems (which stopped providing interactions years ago) and the ā€œmeat puppetsā€ who’ve stopped participating in actual conversations beyond acting as a speaker for a chatbot.

Lucky you, if that’s the case. I’ve seen something else happen these past ten years.

There’s not only the theft. The lies. Sociopolitical manipulation. CSAM. Growing wealth gaps. Wasted essential resources. Pollution. Ignoring the many other ethical issues around what’s currently called ā€œAIā€, including how the AI industry contributing to mass deaths and irretrievable cultural destruction, there is the mounting evidence it’s like an addictive drug.

Some people can shake off the effects with only short-term harm. Some people can’t.

The consequences of even a little ā€œassistanceā€ often includes cognitive impairment and a decrease in healthy social skills.

However, this site has a policy to allow works made with ā€œAIā€ industry products and related systems. Even when games are mislabeled (not saying yours are), harassment about it doesn’t make any sense under the contracts we’ve agreed to. This is a site where everyone will find something they consider harmful or offensive. Looking away from those games when picking through search results or collections is a requirement to finding the good stuff no longer kept anywhere else.

The best response here to ā€œAI-assistedā€ games is to move on (and periodically send Leafo a reminder that we need more exclusion tools). That’s my opinion, anyhow. You may feel you need to skip learning or asking for additional help, and you may prefer the projects like yours.

The rest of get a choice about supporting that or to focus on everyone else who continues to hold onto hope that the near future returns to pre-OpenAI human-to-human collaboration (to build up trust for later generations).

As for any harassment like described: Report. Block.

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I personally feel like even if I wanted it to, something that is solely build with AI is just not good enough. But I think it is extremely helpful for improving progression, especially for solo devs or small teams. I especially wish that I could find people with views like yours, where AI is helpful for creating a game but can't just solely be relied on for starting and completing the game from start to finish without human intervention. It unfortunately seems so difficult to find people that have a nuanced view on AI and it seems everyone either wants to not use it at all or just let it overtake their entire personality - it's quite frustrating.

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The AI(P) there is no middle ground, nor will there ever be, not while there continues to be shocking news about its abuse and the destructive power it entails (such as the case of Hugging Face hacked by agents, a component crisis, being one of the most energy-inefficient technologies, etc.).

Saying that AI(P) has helped you feels like saying that the mafia has helped you save your business (that's if you say that in front of anti-AI people).