Hi, I am a lifelong mental healther and I'd rather have a million people with no experience with suicidal ideation make a million shitty/lazy/stupid suicide games than have one person who's been there get scared away from making art about their experiences.
What an awful take. :( There are many games made by people who have actually gone through such experiences, and I've never seen them get hate.
If anyone is looking for one, I highly recommend: i won't finish this game
ETA: Now that I have a moment to sift through some past games, I'd also personally recommend The Longest Walk and Winter in June for other short experiences about the same topics (depression/suicide) and Adventures With Anxiety! for anyone struggling with or curious about anxiety disorders. All hit close to home for me.
Take care of yourselves and please make sure you're in a good headspace if you decide to read/play. 🧡
DDLC was the most I've ever been upset by a piece of media as an adult, not because the game has onscreen suicide and self-harm but because after that it goes "they're AIs of shitty moe archetypes and the only reason they're this fucked up is that Monika altered their code to make them less likable, so really who cares". Sayori and Yuri being well-written actually makes this worse, because the twist comes after they were already made relatable. It still baffles me that this game isn't universally detested by the mentally ill.
And yet, that game is meaningful to many people who've experienced serious mental illness. Because people get different things out of art, and are not all offended by the same list of writing decisions. This is a part of critical thinking and media literacy, too.
broski they did it the practically the same way the only difference was that sayori decides to open up to the player and this character doesn't they both used the suicide as shock value and ddlc literally stays one the death longer, like ur all hating n the game for a two second picture how tf are they supposed to show research on suicide for a 2 second picture???
maybe think it's because were seeing it in more of the players perspective than zilas in ddlc we are given more info on how the girls feel but this game prolly is going for mcs perspective as zilas never really truly opened up and from the perspective of a loved one suicide is often feels random and out of nowhere . But i do get what ur trying to say.
I agree that DDLC was well-written, and that people are going to like things that are well-written better than things that aren't. I'm also not using the word "art" to say that a creative work is necessarily good. There's a lot of bad art out there, and a lot of it's lazy or empty, but a lot of it did involve effort/love/etc even if things didn't work out.
My reason for talking about the reaction I had to DDLC is just, harm is complicated! DDLC was actually really bad for my mental health. I'm not trying to be special, I played the game and then was triggered for days. It is a pretty clear-cut case of being harmed by exposure to a piece of media, and I'm not the only one who had this reaction. But a lot of other mentally ill people liked the game and found it meaningful, and they would be harmed if it was taken away for being harmful to others, and the writer would've been harmed by being prevented from or harassed for telling his story, and any mentally ill people who wanted to create works with similar elements would've been put in a position where they might feel like they had to choose between giving up or dealing with an amount of hostility they may not be equipped to handle, and that's definitely harmful, too. It's a mess, and there's no way to make sure nobody gets hurt. And it seems like you know this, because you're not writing DDLC off for having badly fucked with some people's heads. I don't think you should write it off, it clearly has value to people, but elsewhere in this conversation you're talking about harm as if it's very black and white and it really isn't.
Hi, you absolutely did say it to them though. You said, verbatim, "You are pushing a very harmful viewpoint and if you cared about other peoples experiences and other fellow "mental healthers" you would not be saying this as it benefits no one but rather pushes them back into regressive and stigmatized corner". (You also implied that the creator of the game, which does suck, by the way, don't get me wrong!, can't possibly be mentally ill because THEY are expressing themselves in a way YOU don't like. I don't like it either and I don't know whether that person is mentally ill, but unlike you, I live in a world where I can acknowledge that it's possibly that another mentally ill person might sometimes make stupid art, because of course that can happen.)
So! Considering that original post was very clearly coming from a perspective of caring about other "mental healthers", as it is very insane to imagine that someone saying they don't want to risk accidentally censoring the art of a person who might have mental health issues would mean it for any other reason, the only reasonable assumption is that you're implying that they don't have those issues at all. Or were you trying to say something that made even less sense and was even less relevant? Either way, you've declared that anyone who doesn't have your exact perspective must not care about other people, while brutally attacking anyone who makes art you dislike. This is ridiculous, fundamentally pro-censorship, and overall it's absolutely disgusting. You were trying to be hurtful and you know you were and the least you could do is not be a coward about it, but of course that won't happen, because you don't have a meaningful stance here, and you live life with such intensive cognitive dissonance that you're able to convince yourself that wanting to CENSOR ART THAT YOU PERSONALLY FELT WASN'T VERY GOOD is actually a very good stance that makes the world better. You've convinced yourself that CENSORING PEOPLE will lead to them being somehow more free to discuss sensitive topics, and that NOT CENSORING PEOPLE will lead to them being somehow less free. A child could tell you how little sense that makes.
You haven't taken responsibility for any of the awful things you said, you claim to be defending media literacy and critical thinking even though everything about your approach does nothing but further damage and disincentivize those things, your various posts about this consist of you pretty much refuse to engage honestly with a single point being by anyone you're talking to, and you still have the gall to act like it's OTHERS who aren't approaching this debate in good faith and can't be reasonably engaged with? Yeah, no. The game being criticized sucks, but there's no question whatsoever that you are the person here who should be ashamed.
Don't worry, though, I won't try to debate you. This post really isn't even for you, because you've already made it abundantly clear that you're a dishonest, vicious, pearl-clutching reactionary who has never once been willing to actually communicate. I'm just putting it here because this whole exchange left me searingly angry and I want there to be a record of someone refusing to swallow your crap.
*the one and only edit actually
Forgot about the stupid DDLC take you had in another comment. Not here to debate that with scum like you either, but WOW it sure was gross how you responded by basically saying "lol who cares that the game I liked more actually hurt you, because I liked it" and then deliberately implied that they secretly only disliked the game because it's popular, as if it's literally impossible for someone to have a different experience than yours and anyone who did must be lying. And please don't even bother trying to explain how actually when you said that you meant something else. You meant what you said and you know it. Alright, peace. I hope your life is really, really bad and it only ever gets worse.
Reading it made me feel sick too and it wasn't even directed at me. I'm sorry they were so harsh. I can only imagine they're going through something right now and decided to take it out on you because... yeah, that was a lot.
Please don't take it to heart, you really didn't deserve such a nasty comment. I hope you have a great day and the days to come only get better for you. 🧡
Thank you so much for your kind comment and backing me up. 🤍 I’m trying not to be too bothered by what they said and be as civil as possible, I genuinely appreciate the concern. I reported their comment and blocked them after my response for my own well being. It’s really really messed up that they said that when I had good intentions with what I had said and had meant it at face value wholeheartedly, and it was that mental health should be taken seriously and with care, and I guess that made me a horrible person to them. I don’t understand what set them off, but I hope they feel better 🤍
OP also admitted to being, like us, someone who struggles with mental health issues. Your commentary also felt harsh to me and honestly triggering, probably because you were triggered yourself. Knowing you are young makes sense now, so I will say this: Don't swing your sword when you don't know how vulnerable your target is, nor if you can handle what may come back towards you. If you feel triggered, take a moment to pause and think before you type. Retype things if they feel like something you wouldn't want someone to say to you when you don't have the information you are trying to convey.I won't assume to know your therapy history, but these are DBT skills. The person who responded angrily to you gave you the exact same energy you gave to the comment you responded to in the first place. Some people don't like to watch other people get dog piled so relentlessly. From your point of view, you were being righteous. From other people's point of view, you came off as sanctimonious. This is from other people in your community, people with mental health issues. If you don't want to get hurt in the comment section, don't take a swing.I highly suggest setting boundaries for yourself and reading up on DBT techniques and emotional regulation for your own benefit if seeing a therapist for it is something you can't currently do. I'm saying this with warmth, from experience, and from dealing with mental health and the internet in particular. I'm not trying to be harsh towards you, I'm just trying to help you understand what happened here. It seems OP was trying to express themselves, you felt triggered, and then the commentary triggered the third commentator. So lets all just give each other room to experience emotions and realize that everyone has a story and a life outside of this comment section which leads us to feel the way that we do. That's why I'm commenting at least lol. I hope all of us has a good week and that we can focus on what is important to us.
Oh, I agree with you that it should apply to everyone. And I don’t think you should have been called names, nor do I think that Apocalypsebeat should have been so harsh with the point they were trying to make (it makes me think they are probably young also)
But while you didn’t call OP names, you came at OP with some pretty serious implications that I can see being triggering to people who were raised or were immersed in certain environments. The way you initially raised your concern wasn’t kind and the way you spoke with them in your replies wasn’t conducive to actually getting your point across. I feel like if we are going to take it in good faith that the people in this comment section that have strong feelings about the game have mental health issues, we should be gentle with each other.
I understand where you are coming from with your autism. I don’t have autism but I do have CPTSD and tend to be blunt because of my upbringing. But when you type on the internet you are able to temper some of the rough edges by rereading your words and editing them.I don’t think being blunt is bad, nor do I think it’s bad to speak your mind (I’m here doing it, and I’m here giving my unsolicited advice as well) but I think in situations where people are not your enemy, or can be convinced to be your friend (in this case I mean “friend” as in “someone who understands and perhaps agrees with your opinion”) then maybe it’s not in your best interest to come in swinging at the very start, even if someone’s opinion makes you mad.
Saying things like “Shame on you” (this phrase specifically) is especially triggering. If we’re in mental health spaces, talking to other people who have mental health problems, we should lead with kindness.
I’m not singling you out because I think you did anything especially bad, or because I dislike you. It’s because you seemed the most open to discussion and dialogue, as well as the fact that I used to communicate in a similar way to how you are.
I don’t think your intentions are wrong, I just think your delivery is hurting your message. And that’s why I think so many people’s feathers got ruffled.
I know my advice is unsolicited but this is a public forum and I think you know about feeling a necessity to voice your feelings to somebody regardless of their opinion on the matter lol
hope you and anyone else here have had some water today. I’m drinking some right now.