Skip to main content

Indie game storeFree gamesFun gamesHorror games
Game developmentAssetsComics
SalesBundles
Jobs
TagsGame Engines

[Feedback exchange] Shelves & Streets — a store + delivery routing sim, browser, no download

A topic by RLDGamesStudio created 12 days ago Views: 376 Replies: 14
Viewing posts 1 to 10

Free browser demo, no download, no signup: https://rldgamesstudio.itch.io/shelves-and-streets


WHAT IT IS


You run a corner shop and its delivery arm. Before opening you compare four wholesalers, catch the rotating deals, fill normal and cold storage, and pack multi-item baskets for the orders you accepted. Then you plan the runs: combine nearby customers, respect scooter and van capacity, avoid congested streets, and send each vehicle out. The vehicle drives the actual street network, so the order you combine customers in genuinely costs you fuel, customer patience and store rating.


There is no timer during preparation. The shop opens when you say it is ready. The pressure comes from your plan being wrong, not from a countdown.


WHAT I WOULD LIKE FEEDBACK ON, in order of how much it helps me


1. The first five minutes. It is a guided first shift with a character walking you through it. Does it explain enough, or does it explain too much before letting you touch anything?


2. The route screen. That is the actual game, and it is also the part most at risk of reading as busywork. Did combining stops feel like a decision, or like clicking?


3. Where you stopped. If you closed the tab, the sentence "I quit when ___" is worth more to me than any amount of praise.


HONEST FRAMING


This is a two-day demo of a game that is already out on iOS and Android, not a standalone free game. Day two is where the real dispatch desk opens, so the demo cuts after it rather than at the end of the tutorial. Store links are on the page; nothing in the browser build asks you for money. The art is generated with AI, which is declared on the game page as well. The code and the design are not.


THE EXCHANGE


Link yours and I will actually play it and write a real comment, not a one-liner. I did that for Dot Siege on this board earlier today if you want to see what you would get. Tell me what you specifically want looked at and I will focus there.

Sorry for leaving your game so quickly, but I think your concern is justified. I couldn’t figure out what to do or how to do in the first 5 minutes, there was too much information scattered everywhere, with no clear sense of what’s important and what’s not. In my opinion, you could hide some of the less critical elements at the start and reveal them gradually as the game progresses. The UI could also use better organization to help players know where to focus.

Oh, this is where I stopped, hope it’s helpful to you. image.png

This is the most useful thing anyone has told me about the game, and it is also the one I cannot patch, so I want to be sure I take the right lesson from it.

I did ship fixes for the smaller things another tester found in the same 24 hours: a map control that turned out to have been dead since launch, account numbers rendering white on a white tile at 1:1 contrast, and messages that vanished after 1.8 seconds regardless of how long they were. Those were almost certainly part of the noise you hit. But none of them are the thing you actually described, which is that there is too much on screen at once and nothing tells you what matters first.

One question, if you have a minute. When you stopped, was it that you did not know what the goal was, or that you knew the goal but could not find the control for it? The first shift is supposed to be a guided delivery with a character walking you through it, and I genuinely cannot tell any more whether that guide is doing its job or whether it is just one more thing competing for attention on a crowded screen.

Either answer is useful. The second one is a layout problem. The first one means the guide is not landing at all, which is a much bigger rewrite, and I would rather know.

Nice sim. Graphics could be better though. Seems pixelated. Also, fonts are too small for me. However, it got a nice taste.

Both of those are actionable, thanks.

Fonts: I raised the smallest labels in the account screens from 8px to 9px and the values from 11px to 12px, and that is already live in the browser build. It is a partial fix and I will say so plainly. 8-9px text is used widely across this UI, and doing it properly is a typography pass rather than a tweak. You are the second person to raise it, so it has moved up.

The pixelation I could not reproduce and I would like to. The browser build runs in a 420x840 frame and the art is authored well above that, so at default size it should be downscaling rather than upscaling, which is not usually where blockiness comes from. Were you on desktop or on a phone, and was the frame at its default size or fullscreen? If it looked worse in fullscreen then it is the upscale and I know exactly where to look.

While I was in there I also fixed a map control that had been dead since launch and some account numbers rendering white on a white tile, both from another tester in this thread. A reload gets you all of it.

Hi, I played your game. Here is a video of me playing: 

It looked great, but I was very confused the hole time. I think I might have missed something important. I just felt lost all the time and could not figure out what to do or what anything did. 


You can find my game her: https://simenhs.itch.io/hexatown  If you could record a video while playing it it would be very useful.

Thanks for playing it, and the honesty is worth more to me than praise would be.


First: your video did not attach. The post reads "Here is a video of me playing:" and then stops, no embed and no link. If you can get it up I would genuinely like to watch it. "Confused the whole time" is the most useful sentence anyone has sent me about this game, and watching where your hands actually go would tell me more than any description could.


And you did not miss something. You are the third person to say this, so it is the game, not you. After the second report I measured it: on day one, before you touch anything, the screen carries 110 text labels and 29 controls, and a quarter of those labels are just zeros and empty shelf slots. That is what "could not figure out what anything did" looks like from the inside. I am cutting it down rather than explaining it better.


On Hexatown, I owe you honesty. I could not give you a fair playthrough today and I cannot record video at all, so instead of inventing impressions here are two things I could actually measure.


Your web build is a debug export. The browser tab reads hexatown_worker_edition (DEBUG) - the internal working name and the debug flag both going out to players.


And it is heavy for what it is. index.wasm is 10.1 MB and index.pck is 513 KB, so a player waits on roughly 10.9 MB before anything happens, and about 95 percent of that is the Godot engine rather than your game. A release export instead of debug usually takes a serious bite out of that. For something described as a short incremental game of about thirty minutes, that download is currently the biggest thing between a curious person and your first tile.


Neither of those needs a playthrough to be worth fixing. I will come back with real play impressions once I can.

(3 edits)

I could not figure out how to get past the first delivery. I had almost no resources, but couldn't buy any more due to needing wholesalers, and that needed a closed store. I felt soft locked here, so I quit. 

5 minutes later, I finally figured it out, I could do one shipment a day. But this profited -$66. After this, immediate download wall, before even completing 3 shipments. Especially as you are looking for feedback, the demo should end at day 30, not day 2. You should even just give web owners the whole game if you can put it on there. There is just not enough to get me to download, as I just struggled for 5 minutes. Also, this is an overwhelming download wall, as I can't do anything anymore.  (Can't reset, access settings, or even see the main menu)

Calling it a "Free browser demo, no download" is false marketing because of this.

Also, the game defaulted to Spanish at first, I was able to change it to English, as I took Spanish classes, but people may not even understand the tutorial like this. 

 Overall, the onboarding is difficult, and then fees hit hard. As soon as anyone can figure it out, you try to hit them with an immense download wall offsite.

My game is: https://codergenius72.itch.io/dualspace, a sokoban puzzle game.

Please notify me once you have fixed the download wall, so I can continue playing.

You were right on every count, and two of them were bugs rather than choices. Both are fixed and live now, so you can pick it back up.


The wall. You could not reset, reach settings or see the menu because the gate was a fixed full-screen overlay with no close, and it re-armed from localStorage on every load. Once you finished day two the page was bricked for you permanently. That is not a paywall decision, that is me shipping a dead end, and calling it a free browser demo while it did that was fair to criticise. It now has "Play the two days again" (wipes the save and restarts clean) and "Back to the game".


The Spanish. Also a real bug and a good catch. The language picker walked navigator.languages looking for a supported locale but had no case for English at all, so a list like [en-US, es-MX] skipped straight past English and matched Spanish. One missing line. Fixed, and tested against ten locale orders.


The font. You are the fourth person to raise it. The product names on the shelves were rendering at 6px. They are 9px now, department signs 10px, and the share of text below 9px on the first screen went from 48 percent to 20 percent.


On demo length I would rather be straight than promise something. Two days was chosen deliberately to protect the paid version, but you are the third person to say it cuts before the game shows what it is, and your run makes the sharpest case: you were at minus 66 dollars and still fighting the wholesaler gate when it hit, so you never saw a shift go well. That is not the demo being short, that is the first two days being the worst two days. So I am working on the opening rather than only the length. The length is not mine alone to change, but I am passing it on with your reasoning attached.


The soft lock you felt is the same problem. Needing the store closed before you can buy from wholesalers is a real rule, but nothing on screen tells you that is why the buttons are refusing you.


Thanks for the detail, it was the most useful post in this thread. I will get to DualSpace properly.

I had a quick go of your game so only a short review. 

The font size is way too small. This is fairly critical and something you should consider addressing sooner rather than later. 
It was actually unplayable for me, I couldn't read the text without bringing my face much closer to the screen, even then it was a struggle. 

So I tried clicking all the buttons to see if I could figure out how to play. I clicked everything I could see and nothing seemed to happen that I could make sense of, it looked like I was buying things and I had to open a store in order to continue. With the amount of information on screen and the tiny tiny font size, I really struggled to figure out what I was doing. 

I typically avoid reading a description before I play because I believe things should be intuitive and self teaching. I went back and read the description. It seemed to communicate what I had observed in game, that is I had bought some things and needed to open my store. No guide on how to open a store though.
I tried playing again, clicking all the buttons to attempt to open a store. I could see a disabled "open store first" button, but no actual button to open my store. 

To answer your question: The first 5 minutes of this game was confusing. I had no idea what I was doing and felt like I was unable to actually 'play' the game.

"Unplayable" is the right word and I am glad you used it rather than softening it. The product names on the shelves were rendering at 6px. Not small, unreadable. That is fixed and live now: product names 9px, department signs 10px, the stat captions and the instruction line raised too. On the first screen the share of text below 9px went from 48 percent to 20 percent. I picked 9px by measuring the longest product name against the tile width rather than guessing, so nothing truncates that did not truncate before. The rest of what you describe is the real problem underneath, and I am not going to pretend the font fix solves it. You clicked everything, saw money moving, worked out you had to open a store, and still could not tell what you were doing. Four people have now said a version of that. The screen asks you to understand it before it lets you act, which is exactly backwards for something people reach by clicking a link. Worth a second look now if you have the patience, but the honest position is that I have fixed the thing that made it physically unreadable, and the thing that made it confusing is still in progress.

Three different people in this thread have now independently said “confused”, “lost”, “couldn’t figure out what to do” 🎮 When feedback converges that hard, it has stopped being a UI polish note and become a diagnosis — so rather than be a fourth voice saying the same thing, here is what I think is actually causing it. Straight up: I read your page and this thread, I did not sit down with a full run, so weigh this as structural input rather than a playtest.

Browser distribution is doing this to you, and it is worth understanding as a mechanism. A player who spent ten minutes downloading and installing has paid something, and will read a tutorial to protect that investment. A player who clicked a link has paid nothing, and will close the tab the moment the screen asks them to understand before it lets them act. Same game, same UI, completely different patience budget. “No download, no signup” is your best acquisition feature and it is also why your first thirty seconds have to carry far more weight than they would on Steam.

The fix is usually subtraction, not explanation. Your systems — four wholesalers to compare, normal vs cold storage, multi-item basket packing, then route planning against capacity and congestion — are genuinely interesting, and I suspect all four are on screen at once on day one. That reads as “too much information scattered everywhere” because it is four systems asking to be learned simultaneously. Consider shipping day one with one wholesaler, one order, no cold storage and no routing, and letting each system arrive on a later day once the previous one is a habit. Nothing has to be cut from the game; it just stops arriving all at once.

A metric that is more useful than “did they finish”. Log time-to-first-click and what that first click was. A long pause before any click means the screen is demanding comprehension before it permits action, and that is the exact moment a browser player leaves. You want them doing something correct within a few seconds, even something trivial, because acting teaches faster than reading and it buys you the patience to explain the rest.

One narrow thing on your reply to simenhs, since you asked for the video: itch will not embed a bare video file in a post. It takes a YouTube or Vimeo URL on its own line. Worth telling them that directly or the video will keep not attaching.

Happy to hold up my end of the exchange. Mine is Bombercup, a free multiplayer bomber-battle arena, browser tab, no download and no signup, so it has the same first-thirty-seconds problem you do: https://cx99industry.itch.io/bomberonlinewc

The specific thing I would value, since you clearly think about onboarding: the boss stage has teleport pads that take you off the board for four seconds — untouchable, but unable to act, and you do not choose where you come out. Does that read as an escape or as a punishment the first time it happens to you? I cannot tell any more, and it is a one-line change either way.

Unofficial fan project, no affiliation with Konami or Hudson. Nothing for sale, nothing to install.

This is the most useful post in the thread and it is not close. You did the thing I should have done: you treated the convergence as a diagnosis instead of adding a fourth data point. The patience budget framing is the part I had not articulated. I had been treating browser reach as pure upside - no install, no signup, click and play - without noticing that the same property strips out the sunk cost that buys a tutorial its attention. Same UI, different contract. That reframes it from a UI polish problem into a distribution mismatch, which is a much more useful thing to be looking at. On subtraction over explanation: I measured the first screen before your post and it agrees with you uncomfortably well. On day one, before the player touches anything, there are 110 text labels and 29 controls. A quarter of those labels were pure emptiness - zeros and empty shelf slots - and the product names were rendering at 6px, which is a separate bug I have since fixed. But even with all of that repaired, the count is the count. Four systems are on screen at once, exactly as you guessed. Your staging proposal is the direction I am taking it. Nothing cut, just arriving in sequence. The thing that makes it credible rather than a nice idea is that it matches what the players said independently: one asked for less on screen up front, one could not tell what was important, one felt soft locked by a rule nobody explained. Time-to-first-click is a genuinely good instrument and I had not considered it. It measures the thing I actually care about - whether the screen permits action before it demands comprehension - and unlike completion it gives a signal from the people who leave, who are the ones I cannot currently hear from. Adding it. On Bomber Online and your teleport pads: I owe you an honest answer rather than a made up impression. I cannot give you a real first-time reaction right now, and a question like escape-or-punishment is worthless answered from a description, because the whole thing turns on the half second where control is taken away. So I will not guess at it. What I can say from the structure alone is that four seconds is long, and that the answer will probably hinge on whether the pad looks like something you triggered or something that happened to you - agency at the moment of entry usually decides how the loss of control afterwards reads. But treat that as a hypothesis, not the playtest you asked for.
Correction, because I quoted a number in this thread three times and it was wrong. I said the first screen carries 110 text labels and 29 controls. That was a DOM count, not a screen count. It included the Fleet and Upgrades panels, which are hidden on day one, and the store shelf view, which lives on a tab that is not the active one. Measured properly at the 420x840 the embed actually runs at, day one shows 45 labels and 13 controls, with about 45px of scroll in the panel. So the wall I described is not the wall that exists. I should have measured what is on screen instead of what is in the document, and I published the wrong figure while arguing from it. What it changes: the game already stages more than I gave it credit for. Fleet is hidden until three deliveries and Upgrades until shift two, both via the game's own unlock rules, and that was working the whole time. HKM, your guess that all four systems are on screen at once on day one was reasonable but it is not what happens - two of the four are already withheld. What it does not change: the type sizes were genuinely broken and that was the real defect. Product names at 6px is unreadable at any density, which is why c-whiskey could not play it at all. That is fixed. The two bugs CoderGenius72 found - the gate with no exit, and English speakers being handed Spanish - were real and are fixed. The subtraction argument still stands on its own merits, it just cannot lean on my bad number. If anyone wants to hold me to a figure now, it is 45 and 13.

Refusing to answer that from a description is the right call, and worth saying out loud 🎮 An invented first-time reaction would have been worse than silence, because I would have acted on it. Same for correcting your own number mid-thread when nobody was going to check the difference between a DOM count and a screen count. Both of those are why your feedback is worth reading.

And the hypothesis you gave instead is better than the answer I asked for.

“Agency at the moment of entry decides how the loss of control afterwards reads.” That is the sharpest sentence anyone has aimed at this mechanic, and it sent me to check something I had not separated. In Bombercup entry is fully chosen — you walk onto the pad, deliberately, usually to escape something. But the EXIT is drawn: you do not pick where you come out, and you cannot see it before you commit. So agency is not one variable there, it is two, and they point in opposite directions.

Which suggests the thing to test is not the four seconds at all. If your model holds, showing the destination — or even just visibly showing that a draw is happening — should flip it from punishment to gamble without changing the duration by a single frame. A gamble you entered knowingly reads completely differently from a result handed to you while you were unable to act. That is a much cheaper experiment than retuning the timing, and I would not have got to it from “does four seconds feel long”.

My suspicion, offered as a hypothesis back rather than a finding: entry agency sets the frame, but duration erodes it. There is probably a length past which “I did this” quietly becomes “this is being done to me”, regardless of how deliberately you stepped on. Four seconds may well be over that line. If so the fix is not shortening it, it is giving the player something to read during it, so the time is spent anticipating rather than waiting.

One thing on your staging plan, since it is the direction you are taking. The usual way staged onboarding fails is that it gets built for session one and then quietly ships to everyone — a returning player relaunches and finds the truncated game, with the systems they had already learned taken away again. It needs a flag that survives the tab closing, and browser games are exactly where that gets forgotten, because there is no install to hang progress off. Worth deciding early whether that state lives in localStorage or on your server, because moving it later is miserable.