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A jam submission

Honest Abe Cannot Be TrustedView game page

Poker but with dice. Can you beat honest Abe?
Submitted by checkmate101, rogueemberlight, syndeos — 15 minutes, 47 seconds before the deadline
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Play an honest game of dice

Honest Abe Cannot Be Trusted's itch.io page

Results

CriteriaRankScore*Raw Score
Audio#4093.3213.321
Innovation#4773.2143.214
Overall#5133.2803.280
Theme#5653.4643.464
Gameplay#6003.0713.071
Visuals#6353.4293.429
Enjoyment#6523.1793.179

Ranked from 28 ratings. Score is adjusted from raw score by the median number of ratings per game in the jam.

How does the game fit the theme?
Honest Abe is very honest. If you can't trust him, who can you trust?

The core mechanic and strategy is knowing when to bluff, and knowing when your opponent is bluffing.

What code and assets did you not make from scratch during the jam (if any)?
This game was made in 3 days from scratch. All models, Art, Music, Code, etc. were made by us for the Game Jam.

- textures for wood floor and green felt came from texture pack
- Button textures came from UI pack
- font

How many people worked on the game?
3

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Comments

Viewing comments 22 to 3 of 22 · Next page · Last page
Submitted(+1)

Somehow I missed this having an HTML build on first visit.

A poker derivative. When I call (bluff) I would have liked to have seen Abe’s hand, he claimed two pair and I had 2 pair, 2 of which were sixes, but I guess he could have had sixes too. It took a while to figure out the controls, then I realised how to click the dice I had, didn’t try bluffing. The tutorial should be split into “call” and “bluff” as I believe the labelling of “call bluff” lead to my initial confusion. They are in fact two distinct actions. For someone unfamiliar with poker, you will be taken round the back and shot.

Good audio, has a beginning, then loops really seamlessly. Impressive and appropriate use of 3D in a web build. Thanks.

Developer(+1)

Thanks for taking the time to  try out the game - considering your allusion to being "taken round the back and shot" I assume you played a match to the end :)

Thanks for the feedback, you have some really good points. If you accuse Abe of bluffing, you should have the satisfaction of seeing his actual hand, whether you were right or wrong - this would also help you "calibrate" to his play style and strategy. (and also feel less like he is somehow just cheating)

The game currently doesn't distinguish the "strength" of a hand beyond the category rank - whoever gets there first can claim the whole category and the next player has to beat that category (even if your pair is stronger than his). This is another avenue I'm actually looking at to improve game balance - allowing claims within a category.

To your point about "call" and "bluff" - yes, this was unfortunate UI/terminology choice. The goal was to make the options stand out - you can "claim" a hand (whether it is truthful or a bluff), you can accuse the other of bluffing, or you can fold (give up the pot that round). We were trying to lean on the phrase "calling someone's bluff" - and it sounded poker-like. Unfortunately, a "call" in poker is a specific thing that is not this action.

We'll see what we can do to avoid confusing terms. And also try to make a better tutorial (I'm still just elated I got any instructions actually in the game this time lol)

Submitted(+1)

Wow, very interesting one! The concept, the gameplay and the visuals are great, even if I kinda got into an infinite winning-losing streak XD. Loved it!

Developer

Thanks for the compliments and feedback! I appreciate you taking the time to try this one out. I agree with your statement - it's not fun to be just "fighting over the same pot".  We're thinking through some methods to balance the gameplay so that a leading player doesn't automatically run away with the match, but also there's not a chance to get stuck in a back and forth loop

Submitted(+1)

Nice little dice-poker hold’em game. Played one and a half times until the game hung itself. It looked like some sort of rescue code after a roll didn’t settle within allotted time never ended the dice rolls. I must say that Abe is well written, to the point where I get suspicious of Abe actually not playing fair but knowing when I am bluffing ._. One thing that I think the game really needed was some more feedback in the resolution of each round. Maybe some reactions out of Abe when you call their bluff, fold or they call your bluff or fold. Some stuff too when you keep rolling. Both to flesh out their character but also as the game is right now, you are left with a “oh but what happened” after each round trying to figure out who actually one and by what means. I also wish the final scenes gave me a bit more time to read, I don’t know what Abe said.

I did enjoy playing it, so very good entry, especially for only using three of the days.

Play-through with more feedback:

Developer(+1)

Hey thanks for the comment, and of course the video feedback! That's actually super valuable, so thank you for taking the time to record and share. I'll dig into the softlock that ended the vid - I don't know why that would have hung the turns, but I did spend a ton of time in the 48 hour grace period fixing race conditions and state machine issues that caused softlocks like you encountered. But I must not have gotten everything :) 

The feedback you gave here and in the video is very accurate. I think the big thing is being more clear about "what" is happening on the screen, who's turn it is , etc. I think there should also be a lot more excitement given to bluffing and calling bluffs. The game just kinda plods along now, and even when you figured out what was happening in the game, the excitement and fun were sapped out. 

I like your suggestions about giving Abe some voice lines and other animations - I agree! That would add so much and make him more fun to play against. And good feedback about the end animation too

To your point about Abe "cheating" - the CPU player has a decision algorithm for its turn that knows the dice in the pool, the dice it rolled, and how many times you rerolled. It has no knowledge of your dice faces. It has a precalculated odds table based on the pool dice to evaluate how "likely" the hand you claim is - since there are only 2/5 dice unknown, there is only a limited set of combinations left, so I could make Abe seem really smart :) However, his decision making is static and can be manipulated or guessed after a bit

It's gratifying to hear it felt like he knew what he was doing - I worked pretty hard on the decision tree. But I think I made him too "strong" a player. 

  • I think it would be a fun opportunity for the human player to catch when he makes an obvious error like claiming a hand that isn't possible
  • I think he should also be more trusting, or at least dubious, where he tries a few times to get a feel for the odds before calling a player bluff

Also, while watching you play, I realized that Abe bluffs WAAAY more than I gave him credit for. You caught him on bluffs that I would have totally believed. 

Thanks again for taking the time to play and give feedback.

Submitted(+1)

Glad the feedback and recording is useful! That’s the main reason I do record my play-throughs.

Yeah Abe was a really strong opponent and I agree it would be fun if Abe sometimes bugged out and misread the situation and did some outlandish claims. Maybe even that such events would be more likely when Abe is getting closer to win or loose.

I didn’t mind having loosing as the most likely outcome while playing. It was rewarding to get the cut-scene, just if I could have had a little more time to read what Abe said ._.

Submitted(+1)

Nice game - couldn't play too long because I have no idea how to play poker, but I like the graphics & the music's good!❤️

Developer(+1)

Thanks for giving the game a try! I'm glad you liked the art and music. I'll need to think of a better UI or a good intro tutorial so the game doesn't rely on people guessing, or knowing what is expected of them in poker to make sense.

Submitted(+1)

Funny game ! A few remarks : about the gameplay, I think it could be nice to pay to keep 1 dice. That would bring a more strategic element to the game, but also more control (for now we can just roll again or fold). About he UI : it is a bit unclear whose turn is it, if we won/defeated a spurious claim from Abe, whether we can still act within the same turn or the turn has ended. So some work on animations, graphical feedback would improve a lot the experience.

But the game is nice, good job !

Developer

Thanks for the comment and the feedback! I think you are right about the UI and animations - having those in place would make some of those elements clear and would add a lot more fun. I'm brainstorming ideas to give more choices in play - I think being able to save a die would add a lot of strategy for sure.

Submitted(+1)

Very cool idea for a poker game. I just think the AI and balancing need some work.

1. After initial bet Abe always calls my stuff a bluff.
2. Abe not seem to use the reroll mechanic (at least in my playtrough)
3. Adding chips to the pool for re rolling is pretty broken. Because I could just re roll till I get a better hand and not lose anything because I win the chips back. Of cause this only works If I have a lead but it was my go to strategy and worked every time.

I like the art work of abe and the mix of 2d and 3d elements :)

Great work for the short time span!

Developer

Hey thanks for the feedback! I did the code on the AI decision script, and I can see where you are coming from. Abe tends to call aggressively if he thinks a certain claim is not "believable" - what this often translated to is that anytime you get a "good" initial roll (like a 3 of a kind even), Abe won't believe you.

It could be that you got lucky and had pretty good rolls throughout, but also his reroll action is pretty noiseless - partly because the dice are far away (lol) but mostly because I should have had a big UI banner that announced the various turns and actions. 

But also your comment on the reroll being broken is probably accurate too - if you reroll enough, you are likely to get the higher hand, but also your bluff becomes more believable on a math standpoint - so a human would see you on your last couple chips and conclude you were bluffing (even without body language tells), but Abe sees you rolled 7 times which makes it more likely to him that you ended up with a Full House :) So you kinda win either way with that strategy.

I'd be curious to compare notes further on how I can improve this, but don't feel obligated.

But thanks very much for the feedback and the compliments too!

Submitted(+1)

First I think the game needs to be balanced and then you can work on a AI.
in the game of dice + poker I see a few problems:
1. Poker relies on the concept that you can "guess" what the enemy has based on 2 factors: The cards on your Hand + Table and how they bet. This only works because the cards are limited. So you don't can have 2 times 4 of Kings. This does not work in a dice game.
2. In Poker you reveal the card on the table one by one giving each player the opportunity to Bet
3. The cards in Poker have far more combinations then dices. So it is harder to tell if your hand is "bad" or not

I would suggest to either change the game to a other dice game with lying or add some meta mechanics outside the dice poker.
E.g. instead of making rerolling a part of the game, make it kind of a cheat. The player could distract Abe and reroll the dice, this needs to be balanced with a kind of downside if he got caught of cause. Or If you lie you have to win a kind of starring contest mini game.

Other dice game that comes to mind is Meier. 
https://redcupshop.com/en/pages/trinkspiel-maexchen-meiern

It is a common party game in germany and uses dices + a believe/lie mechanic. The game also has very few rules which can make it easy to implement.

Good AI in my opinion has 2 criteria: 
- Deterministic so  the player can s strategize around it
- Random so the player can not predict it

Depending on the game these need to be balanced. 

For a strategy game the AI must strategize. So think a few steps ahead. Then validate it by a criteria (in this case for example if he wins or losses chips). This can be done for X amount of times for a random decisions and then choose the best strategy or for all possibilities (if this is not to resource heavy) and then randomly select out of the best X.

There is alot of stuff to learn when it comes to game AI and I also only touched the surface :D so there is probably better methods out there.

Developer

Hmm this is good to go through, thank you for taking the time. Thanks for sharing the Meier game, I'll look to see what I can learn and emulate from that idea. There are actually 2 different implementations of dice bluffing games here in the jam that I've found that both have slightly different rules - but they follow your pattern in that they are more based on the total numbers of dice rolled vs the combination of hands.

I didn't invent my rules - actually I modeled the game off a variation of Liar's Dice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar%27s_dice#:~:text=%5B3%5D-,Common%20hand,-edit

In my current implementation there are only 36 possible outcomes of the two private dice, and a limited number of hands possible. This was small enough to be easy for a game jam, but probably has a lot of balance issues and lack of combinations. Staying within the confines of these rules, some things I could add would be the ability of a player to reroll 1 die instead of both, or the ability to reroll part/all of the pool dice in certain circumstances, or allow same-rank claims that could be decided by strength of the dice or a kicker. If I leaned a little farther outside, I could implement a larger system of betting that makes more sense outside of reroll, or introduce outside systems like different abilities or types of dice, minigames or cheats to try to distract either player.

You've given me a lot to think about too, in that maybe the premise of this game is flawed - could be good experience in the game jam to take into the next project without trying to turn it into anything by itself.

Regarding the AI - this one was a completely deterministic algorithm, but with the constraint of time I tried to make it as not-stupid as I could, so it looks at a couple different factors based on the probability of the hand, the believability, and the chips at stake. But it is completely lacking any randomness. 

The major flaw is also a lack of strategic awareness - every round is its own calculation. 

If I were to redo everything from scratch:

  • Hand definitions would have built in ranking (don't ask, the code is gross)
  • Probabilities would be retained in numeric value that can be operated against at a granular level (I precomputed and bucketed possible hands into decision points)
  • Personality would have an impact on calculations
  • Player behavior would weight certain decisions
  • There would be strategic decision making to allow the AI to fold on a bad hand early to get better initial luck, downplay claims to drive up the pot for a good hand, read player intent to bluff.

You are right that there is a lot that can go into it. It's probably pretty clear that most of my wishlist comes back to a good architecture to calculate hands etc. and better balance on how chips are risked in the pot and won. Then interesting decisions can be made when that is solid.

Submitted(+1)

Ah yes I know Lair's Dice. You could also just use the basic version.
I don't know the Common Hand version but it seems like the player has 5 private dices and no table dices.
I also don't know about the rerolling part. I could not find a kind of video online but in my head rerolling as part of the game makes it kind of broken.
 

The cool thing about the normal version is that it uses all dices, so also the enemy dices. So you could have 4 fours but still lose because there where 5 fours. And you have to taken into account the enemies bets for strategy. The common hand version is a bit more guessing and luck.

There are also other games that uses Lair Dice (Red Dead Redemption had it as mini game if I remember correctly).

The re implementation of the AI sounds pro messing. If you want any playtest for futur iteration, just dm me. I maybe not checking my itch every day if there is no active jam so response might take a while :D

Developer

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I learn a ton from participating in the jams, especially from all the feedback!

Submitted(+1)

Well, Abe definitely doesn't know how to take a loss! It's a really cool game. It took me a moment to grasp the rules, a big wall of text can be hard to translate into actual gameplay sometimes, but the mechanics aren't super complex, so playing for a bit was all it took to get the hang of things. The art style is great, and the background on the game page and banner look awesome. The UI could be a tad more readable, but overall it's fine. The music is also fantastic and definitely sets the mood for the game! Fun game, great job! ♥

Developer(+1)

Haha thanks for playing through to the end and congrats! Yes, it seems Abe is an exceptionally poor loser.

Thanks for the feedback on the tutorial. For me, just having any instructions in-game was a step in the right direction compared to my last jams, but I will definitely work on the tutorial aspect for the future!

Also thanks for the compliments and other feedback too!

Submitted(+1)

Really solid little dice poker game! Simple, clean and fun, and the bluffing is a nice fit for the theme. Managed to win my run too! Abe didn't seem too pleased :-D

Developer

Hey congrats! Yeah Abe takes this game too seriously lol. Thanks for the comment and feedback :)

Submitted(+1)

Win or lose, the result was always the same... Had a lot a fun playing this, voved the presentation and the UI was nicely constructed to help understand the hands! Not having a limit on 'Roll' gives a huge advantage for the one with a lead on chips, just a minor nitpick. Awesome job!

Developer(+1)

Thanks for the feedback! I agree with the note about the reroll balancing, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I hope you liked the ending animation ok :) we squeezed it in at the last minute. At least when you win, you get a little "You Win!" text lol

Submitted(+1)

This brought me back to my Balatro days lol. Overall I had a good time, I managed to bluff Abe down to 1 chip but could NOT for the life of me get that final one lol, I guess RNG wasn't on my side. My only notable feedback was that it wasn't super obvious what happened after each round since there wasn't any visual feedback, I'd have to look up at the chip counter to realize whether or not I won or lost. But given the time limit of the game jam this was a lot of fun and quite polished! Thank you for making <3

Developer

Thanks for the compliments and feedback - being in the same sentence as Balatro is awesome! That last chip can be a bit annoying, especially if he gets a good hand right away, or you get bad luck. I hope it wasn't a bug! Each round should always pay in 1 chip at the beginning, so he should always have to commit at least that, even if he folds right away.

The feedback on the visual queues is good to hear too - I think that would be a good improvement for us to do.

Submitted(+1)

That lose ending was actually so funny. My guy pulled a literal glock on me lol. The game's pretty interesting! Its basically poker but the probability are different. Though I would say, I still prefer the card version since there are face cards whereas dice only has 6 (it could also my super bad luck on me when I played the game lol). I do wish there were some more twist to the game like maybe a way I could cheat? or something like that, but for a game jam game, this is already pretty good! The sounds are super fitting for the game and the music is pretty vibey! I also like this artstyle of hand-drawn and 3D mixed together! Overall, even though I yearn for more twist on the game, this was still quite a fun time! Great work!!!

Developer(+1)

bahaha thanks for playing through to the end! The comments on the sound and music are appreciated - also the art. Was truly a team effort in both areas.

Appreciate the idea about implementing a twist to the rules! Since the dice only have 6 values (and you only control two dice anyway) the options you have are a bit limited. We started the jam late, but even then we had scoped in pretty much to the core mechanic. I'll try to think of some cool  implementations to change things up - the cheat aspect would have fit really well with the jam theme too

Submitted(+1)

That's completely fair! Very common thing to happen in game jams!

Submitted(+1)

Music is nice, i would suggest a picture tutorial or an interactive one. Nice entry!

Developer

Thanks! I appreciate the comment and feedback (I did the music! Glad u liked it) 

Noted on the tutorial. Some background, this is my 3rd brackeys and the last 2 had no tutorial (kept running out of time), so I was happy to just get anything in game lol.

Next Jam, I will have a good tutorial, I'm sure :)

Submitted(+1)

I really enjoyed the music, and atmosphere of the game!!!!!

Developer

Appreciate the comment! I'm glad you liked the music - I think it turned out pretty groovy

Submitted(+1)

Took me a minute to catch onto how to play. I think the biggest improvement would be to make the players current action a larger splash in the middle of the screen so it is obvious who’s turn it is at the moment. Fun play overall!!

Developer(+1)

Thanks for sticking through it and figuring the game out! I appreciate the comment and agree with your feedback - if you don't see the little opponent action text, or otherwise already know the flow of the game, you could be waiting on him when it is your turn

Submitted(+1)

Such a nice simple  game. Only thing is that i would add some sort of feedback text or sound after the round ends. As an example when you clickAbe bluffs it would be easier to see a text or hear a sound  that would indicate successful/unsuccessful decision. Overall I did like the game experience. Good job!

Developer

Thanks for the kind comment and feedback! I agree with the idea to show a little more around the bluffs being called or successful - it's the main tie to the theme, so it would have been cool for the game to make it exciting every time you got away with a bluff or called his

Submitted(+1)

A nice little game with a really solid mechanic, poker with dice is a really original idea, and I liked the way the theme was implemented with the bluffing.

Some sfx feedback would be nice for winning the rounds, but a nice little project overall, good job!

Developer

Thanks for the comment! I'm glad we were able to hit the theme - I originally had 0 ideas for this one when voting. Appreciate the feedback on the feedback for the round ends - I agree

Submitted(+1)

Nice game (: easily understood and engaging. I felt like there could be more feedback to whether you won the round or guessed right or wrong about Abe lying (maybe some animations for Abe, he could get flustered or angry).

The music had a lot of effort in it and I liked it, the drums were very satisfying but maybe a little bit too loud. It worked well for a background track, I think in a full scope game it could maybe change dynamically with the game as the tension rises. Also some VFX for dice throwing and clicking on options would add some juice

Developer

Thanks for the comment and the feedback! I think your suggestions are spot on - there's a pretty comparable lack of VFX that would add a lot in the various areas you mentioned. 

Thanks also for the comment on the music. I enjoyed making it, even though it felt a bit rushed. I think I could mix it a bit better - especially the drums are missing most of the EQ and reverb etc. effects I would add. They might be a bit too loud in comparison to the other instruments. I also have an EDM background, so I tend towards loud drums :) 

Submitted(+1)

This is my first time seeing poker played with dice. Interesting idea ^^

Developer

Thanks! I had a lot of fun (and a lot of frustration) coding it

Submitted

Oh, high five, Bro! I definitely had to check my sanity while making a 3D game😂

Submitted(+1)

Fun Game! Everything worked as it should for me, I grew up playing yahtzee and this reminded me of that, Great job in the amount of time you had to work on it! Has potential to be even better with a lil post jam love :)

Developer

Thanks for the support! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I also grew up on yahtzee, so I like the mechanic in video games too

(+1)

This is a fun game!  I think it would be fun if somehow Abe could change expressions when he wins or loses a hand (like the genie in Akinator?)  I have NO idea how hard that might be to implement though, so take that suggestion with a grain of salt lol!

Developer

Thanks for playing! I like your suggestion - it would also be cool to have him animate slightly, like he's bobbing up and down with the music. I don't think it would be too crazy (maybe a little bit of work so he has the right expression for the moment), but just weren't able to fit it in before the jam ended

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